Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: Brynjaminjones on October 18, 2015, 04:51:11 PM
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I've just been out to replace the ABS sensor on the XJ, and discovered a split in the tone ring by the front left wheel, which I suppose explains all of my issues.
How hard are these to replace? I know it involves taking the wheel bearing off, but do I need to remove the half-shaft?
Also, does anyone know where I can buy a tone ring for a reasonable price? Lighty's?
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Is that the abs ring if so I have two for sale on eBay
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That's the one, do you have a link?
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Evening
Here's the eBay number 221907231623
Cheers Mark
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one the shaft is out, i believe its an interference fit. So get out the tapping stick and be gentle
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So the shaft does have to come out then? Does that involve removing the diff cover?
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The shaft can just be pulled out but you will make less mess by draining a bit of oil out of the diff first. ABS tone ring is fragile but does just tap on / off.
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Excellent, thank you. It looks like it might be time to buy some tools soon!
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The parts for this have arrived from the US now (much cheaper!), so I thought I'd crack on.
As expected, however, I'm stuck at the first hurdle. Trying to remove the 36mm hub nut bent my 700mm breaker straight away. :banghead:
I've found a 450Nm cordless impact wrench for hire for a good price - would that be man enough for the job?
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You'd be better off with a 3/4 drive breaker bar and socket.
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The parts for this have arrived from the US now (much cheaper!), so I thought I'd crack on.
As expected, however, I'm stuck at the first hurdle. Trying to remove the 36mm hub nut bent my 700mm breaker straight away. :banghead:
I've found a 450Nm cordless impact wrench for hire for a good price - would that be man enough for the job?
that should be enough to shift the nut, remember have it working in the unwind direction.
bought the impact wrench from machine mart to remove a beetle axle nut that was siezed. spun it off after 5 minutes so the 450 should be more than enough and less effort
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Awesome, cheers Dave. I remembered that yours seemed to make pretty light work of the other one on my XJ!
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yeh after bending my big torque wrench
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Mmmmn I remember the Beetlerear drum retaining nut.......250 ft lbs.....
Had to rest the car against the wall to undo it :hysterical:
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Well I couldn't get hold of the 450Nm impact wrench as the hire places were all out of stock, so I tried a 200lb-ft one which just doesn't seem to be doing anything.
I'm at a bit of a loss now as I can't find any bigger breakers/extensions, and can't get a big impact.
Are there any other tricks I could try?
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Breaker bar with a short length of scaffold pole over it. put it on the nut so it is at right angles to the ground and get a jack under it and jack it slowly.
Also soak the nut daily in a penetrating fluid for about 3 days before you try it.
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It is very redneck and not H&S compliant but I have good luck leaning on breaker bars then whacking them with a club hammer like some kind of improvised impact way of breaking it loose. It's normally a frantic outlet of frustration with swearing and I'm sure I look like a deranged ape but it has worked quite often.
Or you could not go down the heathen route and do as others have said - loads of penetrating fluid and a big bar.
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I don't have any big hammers, so I might try to get my hands on some scaffold first.
Daft question, but how should I go about locating scaffolding pole? I don't have anything that could be used lying around!
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I don't have any big hammers, so I might try to get my hands on some scaffold first.
Daft question, but how should I go about locating scaffolding pole? I don't have anything that could be used lying around!
Anyone having scaffolding put up near you? Local builder near by?
Handle of trolley jacks can often slip over breaker bars....
Do you know anyone in a garage with a proper good impact gun, or even a mobile spanners guy....
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No connections up here yet unfortunately! I might pop into some places though to see if anyone can help
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Used a 6' scaffold bar on my 1ton wheel nuts when I first got the axles......must have been on for 10 years....... Needed full body weight..... :hysterical:
To get old ABS tone ring off use a cold chisel...... Guys at Lighthouse advised me on this :icon_biggrin:
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Cheers Jez. The old ABS ring is split, so I was planning on destroying it as much as possible on removal!
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Another trick might help get the new one on......
Put new tone ring in oven to heat up and should slip onto cold Axleshaft a bit easier
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That's a good idea Jez, I just wish I could get that far!
I managed to get my hands on a big scaffold pole. I now have a nice snapped breaker bar and torque wrench (I am well aware that torque wrenches shouldn't be used for this!)...
A long shot, but a desperate request... are any Birties in this area with suitable tools that might be able to assist? :003:
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Yes but I'm a bit far away....
I used my breaker bar for the above vandalism.....
Difference is ...one day about 10 years ago in a moment of madness I bought a Snap On breaker bar.......£££££ spendy £80 but has never broken.....and if it did tis guaranteed for life so just hail the Snap On man in the van and he'll give you a new one......
Happy to post it to you but there's bound to be a closer answer to you.......
Last vandalism with the bar and a scaf pole had the breaker bar bent like a fishing rod.....tis amazingly strong......
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Are you in Nottingham?
I'm sure I could swing by and get it off..
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yes he is
Bryn I'v got a 3/4 inch tomy bar that your could borrow if Ezz can't help
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I just don't have any time otherwise I'd come up. If you are still struggling after the weekend I might get a chance to get over to help.
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Difference is ...one day about 10 years ago in a moment of madness I bought a Snap On breaker bar.......£££££ spendy £80 but has never broken.....and if it did tis guaranteed for life so just hail the Snap On man in the van and he'll give you a new one......
Most of my tools for traveling are all snap on. Big money but they last. I managed to bend my breaker bar once. It took a very long pole and two fat guys standing on it. I was surprised the end didn't break off and was happy when they replaced it for free.
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Right, I've had some progress... I called up the National Tire place around the corner, and after reassembling and sneaking around there in the XJ, they got it off with air tools in no time and didn't want any money for it!
The problem now is that I can't remove the three 13mm bolts holding the hub on. I applied force to one of them and managed to snap the bolt in the middle.
I really appreciate all of the offers to help, and would still really appreciate any help I can get for the rest of the hub removal, as I really can't seem to budge these 13mm bolts, and don't quite know what to do now that one has snapped :banghead:
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If you really eff it up I have the parts that swivel and that the hub bolts into..... I have both sides.
The swivel hub things......can't think of the correct name, been spending the afternoon inhaling cellulose thinners, not intentionally you understand :jpshakehead:
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Cheers for that Jez, although fingers crossed I won't manage to ruin those too!
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Jez the swivel things are called knuckles :hysterical: how much thinner where you drinking it.
Can help sort thr hub of you need Bryn
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When the hub bolts are out you may need to give a bit of persuasion with a big hammer to get it out of the knuckle
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Taking these apart for the first time is a bastard Bryn so don't think you are doing anything wrong. Once they have been disassembled and rebuilt with loads of copper grease they can be stripped with normal tools with minimal swearing.
The three 13mm hub bolts will be corroded into the knuckle. A combination of loads of penetrating fluid, heat and gentle pressure and hammer taps can help.
OR, deranged ape again, snap all the bolts off, hammer the ends out of the hub and rebuild with new bolts (I have spares I can post you).
Further troubles you may have include separating the hub unit from the knuckle. This can bring on more Tourette's but there is a good truck on Stu off-road that uses the steering power of the jeep to push the hub out of the knuckle. You will struggle to do this if you snap all the bolts off!
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Cheers guys - I've taken a look in the daylight this morning and decided that I'm definitely feeling more positive about it now.
I don't have heat available, so might have to resort to snapping them all. I applied gentle force to the first bolt (albeit with a scaffolding pole :icon_redface: ), and that was still too tight not to snap. This whole knuckle seems more rusty than is normal to me - it had an advisory on it last MOT, not that that probably means much.
James - I've come across the steering method before to remove the hub. How come it won't work with snapped bolts - is it because of the angle at which the force is being applied? I think I'll take you up on the offer of spare bolts anyway if that's okay, as I'll need at least one and I can't find them easily for anything less than ridiculous prices.
I'll let you lot know if I continue to be stuck, as I might well then need help!
Dave made this job look so easy when he did my last bearing!
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So I've finally got somewhere!
I managed to snap a second bolt despite my best attempts at being very gentle with the scaffolding pole. The third bolt I managed to remove intact by putting the bottle jack under the little breaker bar from my socket set.
I tried lots of hammering to get the hub off to no avail, so I wedged one of the snapped bolts between the axle tube and the hub as James mentioned, then turned the steering wheel and it popped right off!
Now to figure out how to get the ABS ring off the half shaft...
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Happy days, wire brush and copper grease everything, easy next time then...
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Good work :icon_super:
PM me your address and I'll put the bolts in the post for quick delivery.
I didn't think you would have enough bolt sticking out to do the steering trick if they snapped off but you've done it so well done.
Cleaning and copper ease will make is so easy next time you have to take this lot apart.
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James - PM sent - thank you so much!
The steering trick doesn't actually rely on the bolts being threaded in - you wedge something between the end of the axle tube and the ears of the CV joint (or whatever it's called!), so it pops the whole half shaft out.
Does anyone have any more tricks to get the remainder of the ABS ring off? I hammered for about 40 minutes but couldn't get it to budge...
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Might be just as easy to see if anyone has a half-shaft.
I have some in the garage, not sure if any have tone rings on, but I could check in the daylight.
Do you need the long one or the short one.
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Hmmm, I could be tempted by a half shaft. I would need the short one - without a tone ring unless it's in usable condition!
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rust on the hub, that amount looks normal.
partially cut through the ring and use a lump hammer and "old" screw driver or cold chisel to break the ring. then you should be able to start bending and prising the ring off. not sure how plyable they are or they may just snap
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Sorry, just had a look. I only have non-abs shafts. My TJ doesn't have abs.
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Not to worry - thanks for looking!
What's the best thing to cut the ring with? I currently have nothing!
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If it has a split as you said, can you not open the split with a cold chisel and a BFH. Then prise it open
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It is just a tight fit on the shaft plus corrosion, seeing as you don't mind breaking it why not just keeping hitting it in the direction it's supposed to go and if it breaks well no problem. I remember them being quite brittle :017:
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Although it has split, the split only covers the half of the width that isn't up against the axle shaft.
I've hammered at it for about 40 minutes and managed to chip away all of that half, but where it's up tight against the shaft I can't get it to budge.
I've bought a hack saw now so will try to cut through it, as I'm sure I can get it off once I have a crack to chip away at.
I hope this makes sense as red grape juice has been consumed
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New hub bolts have just arrived special delivery from a very kind James!
I'm now feeling hopeful that the XJ could be MOT ready by the end of the weekend :003:
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So after much sawing and hammering, the old ring is off and the new one on!
Reassembly couldn't have gone any more smoothly, so I took it out for a spin.
After several laps of the block the light was still on, so I popped the bonnet to disconnect the battery out of desperation. Turns out that it helps if you connect the ABS sensor wires! D'oh!
A very happy Bryn has an XJ that could be going in for its MOT this week :003: :003: :003:
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good man :icon_super: :icon_super: :icon_super:
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Good work Bryn :greggmo:
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Nice one..... :icon_super:
Good feeling when you beat the rust and stuff isn't it :icon_twisted:
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just waiting for the questions about installing a lift kit in an afternoon :icon_rolleyes:
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Heh heh, that's way out of my budget!
We're actually planning to give the ZJ a little lift before the XJ 8-)