Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: JonL on February 14, 2021, 12:02:09 PM
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Hi everyone :icon_biggrin:
I'm a new owner of a 1998 Cherokee XJ (limited) and about to put it through an MOT. The last MOT had an advisory that the headlights had lost a lot of the silver on the reflectors which was reducing the performance (or words to that effect). So I'm looking for a suitable pair of replacements. I need UK headlights and ones that will be accepted by an MOT testing station but am struggling to find anything stock. There are plenty of aftermarket LED options but would rather not need to do any re-wiring - I'd really like just direct replacements that I can bolt straight in.
Does anyone have a link to any recommended options? Or perhaps have a pair of good used ones left over from an upgrade they've already done?
Apparently, because I have electric adjusters, it limits my options for aftermarket replacements.... not sure how true that is
I have a second question - which is a bit daft to be honest - but where can I check my antifreeze level? I have one of those tubes with the balls in that rise up depending on the amount of antifreeze mix and I would usually suck water up from the radiator expansion tank - but on my jeep I can't get the pipe down to the water level as there seems to be plastic mouldings in the way - not sure if that makes sense to anyone.... but is there some other way\place to suck up water to measure the antifreeze level in the XJ's?
thanks Jon
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Hi Jon,
I had trouble finding the correct rear light assembly for my WJ and eventually found it here:
https://eshop.rbs-handel.de/en/ (https://eshop.rbs-handel.de/en/)
They ask you for your VIN number to make sure you have the right part, maybe they can help you out too.
Here's the relevant page for your model:
https://eshop.rbs-handel.de/en/catalog/jeep/4/cherokee-xj/163/2-8-l-gm-v6/255/headlamps/ (https://eshop.rbs-handel.de/en/catalog/jeep/4/cherokee-xj/163/2-8-l-gm-v6/255/headlamps/)
Goog luck,
Nic.
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Thanks Nic
I'll drop them a message.
On first looks - there seems to be only options available for USA (or perhaps mainland Europe)..... which I guess will mean the beam will dip to the wrong side of the road for the UK - which won't please the MOT testers..... But perhaps I'm mis-reading their website.
Thanks for the fast response
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here you go, sAME AS A BEDFORD RASCAL :003:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174349805689?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=174349805689&targetid=1140014333262&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9046048&poi=&campaignid=12125450843&mkgroupid=117045673099&rlsatarget=aud-629407027905:pla-1140014333262&abcId=9300480&merchantid=7276284&gclid=CjwKCAiAsaOBBhA4EiwAo0_AnAPp1ZqDKEc3N2H7N0cwBltFNJRbaw76WkYQGMZoYKb66NLyZSGTHxoCK3MQAvD_BwE
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Ah - great.
They look to be the ones
I assume it's possible to drill a hole for the sidelight?
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You should be able to find some (just like the ones Daggie posted) on eBay with a hole for a sidelight. Sometimes I've seen them advertised as "sealed beam H4 conversion".
If you're struggling, there's a guy on Facebook that sells them too. Those exact ones but with sidelight holes. His name is Marc Laidlaw, and can be helpful for a number of XJ parts.
Further down the line, I'd also recommend upgrading the headlight harness. The original is weak and sends all of the current through the headlight switch, which ends up limiting the output. Mine got to the point where it would overload the switch, which would overheat and cause the headlights to cut out. When you remove the switch, it's common to find the connector melted.
A relay harness which takes power straight from the battery can be had for less than £15, and makes a big difference with headlight performance and reliability. I like to keep my XJ stock, but would still 100% recommend it!
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Hi
Thanks very much for that - I've got in touch with Marc and hopefully he can sort me out with what I need - plus he lives pretty local to me too!
Also I'm very interested in what you say about the relay harness - our XJ has been in the family since new, first my father then me and now my son is the main user..... just the other day he said the lights just went out and he had to jiggle around with the pull switch a bit - and this has happened again since. I thought that perhaps the contacts were getting worn after >20 years and was looking for a replacement. So what you say makes perfect sense and I ought to do the harness as well as the switch then.
Can you perhaps send me a link to a suitable part?
kind regards
Jon
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Regarding the harness, they are sold here: www.ksuspensionfab.com/store/p6/H4_Upgraded_Headlight_Harness.html#/ (http://www.ksuspensionfab.com/store/p6/H4_Upgraded_Headlight_Harness.html#/) (although this is an 'merican site), they have a fitting video, and a Bleepin' Jeep review as well, just to cement your decision on getting one. If you can find a UK supplier, please share, as I am also after one.
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Great, glad he could help. I've had a few sets of headlights from him, amongst other bits.
That's exactly what happened with my headlight switch too. I decided to replace it, which delayed the issue for a while, but it always came back. I think I went through 3 switches before adding the relay harness, and I've not had another problem since.
Here is the harness that I used:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Car-H4-Headlight-Lamp-Bulb-Relay-Wiring-Harness-Kit-Socket-Plug-Wire-UK/265024500395?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Car-H4-Headlight-Lamp-Bulb-Relay-Wiring-Harness-Kit-Socket-Plug-Wire-UK/265024500395?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649)
It's a little short, but you should be able to make it work just fine. I've actually got the same one installed on 3 of our vehicles now, as I've had similar problems with them too!
It's really easy to install, the hardest part is deciding how to route it so the wiring can't be seen.
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It's a little short, but you should be able to make it work just fine. I've actually got the same one installed on 3 of our vehicles now, as I've had similar problems with them too!
It's really easy to install, the hardest part is deciding how to route it so the wiring can't be seen.
Have you got any pics of your installation?
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XJs are renowned for burning out the headlight switch which causes the lights to flicker. Run the lights via a relay and your problems will be solved and higher wattage bulbs can be used. The relay stops the light load running through the switch which over time causes the failure.
The downside is that higher wattage bulbs (150w) will cause the glass lenses to crack in cold weather. LED headlights will be or should be a simple plug and play connection but the beam patter maybe an issue for the MOT.
As mentioned the Bedford rascal units are a common swap but if there is no side light option, it is only a case of carefully drilling the same size hole as in the old lamp in the rough same location and inserting the sidelight bulb which i think is held in by a rubber grommet.
As for the antifreeze and you not being able to insert the tester, you can add a piece of tubing to the tester so it drops into the coolant and then try and suck the fluid for a result. it may take a few goes as you will have to slowly displace the air and draw the coolant into the tester
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Have you got any pics of your installation?
I don't I'm afraid. Once installed, it's practically invisible unless you looks for it. I think I had to remove the grill to run the wiring along the bottom, plus the headlights of course, but that was about it.
I just run the standard bulbs in mine, as I wasn't aware until recently that you could get higher wattage bulbs!
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Have you got any pics of your installation?
I don't I'm afraid. Once installed, it's practically invisible unless you looks for it. I think I had to remove the grill to run the wiring along the bottom, plus the headlights of course, but that was about it.
I just run the standard bulbs in mine, as I wasn't aware until recently that you could get higher wattage bulbs!
Ah, OK, no worries. I was interested to see if/where you had mounted the relays, as in the videos I have watched, they have all drilled holes in the inner-wing to hold them in place, but the items in the link you shared look a bit different, so was wondering how you did it.
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I deliberately bought this harness because the relays don't need to be bolted in place. I don't like making holes!
With mine, they relays ended up just by the battery, between it and the wing. I've got them wedged down in there quite happily!
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I could be wrong but isn't anything above 55W for off road use only? :017:
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I deliberately bought this harness because the relays don't need to be bolted in place. I don't like making holes!
With mine, they relays ended up just by the battery, between it and the wing. I've got them wedged down in there quite happily!
Ah, OK, cool. I didn't relish the idea of drilling mine either!
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I could be wrong but isn't anything above 55W for off road use only? :017:
I think the limit is 60W, but effectively yes.
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Ah, OK, cool. I didn't relish the idea of drilling mine either!
Let me know if you want pictures of anything, I'm happy to go and take some!
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I could be wrong but isn't anything above 55W for off road use only? :017:
err Yep, but they can still be bought and halfrauds wont accept returns.
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Ah, OK, cool. I didn't relish the idea of drilling mine either!
Let me know if you want pictures of anything, I'm happy to go and take some!
Thanks Bryn. I'm highly likely to get the wiring, but I may wait until the weather picks up a bit. I've got some tinted front indicator lenses to fit as well, which also means I need to get four amber LED bulbs; so I may as well do it all in one go.
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Very interesting thread. :icon_super:
I also watched the BleepinJeep review of the upgrade loom as suggested by XJFan :greggmo: :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=JGf9eNK5ZYA&feature=emb_title&ab_channel=BleepinJeep
they have a fitting video, and a Bleepin' Jeep review as well, just to cement your decision on getting one. If you can find a UK supplier, please share, as I am also after one.
:icon_biggrin:
XJs are renowned for burning out the headlight switch which causes the lights to flicker.
My XJ does not flicker, but does have an issue with dim headlights, which get dimmer when the A/C compressor is running, it is very noticeable when the A/C clutch turns on, the headlights dim further than their already dimmed state :lol_hitting:
I assumed it was an Earth issue, so I have been trying to find and clean them all up, but I did not consider the switch as you just assume most cars, even late 90's cars, would have the current set to go through a relay. However, I am now wondering if the switch is struggling to supply enough power to the headlights making them dim, which is then made more noticeable when further current drains happen elsewhere in the system, in this case, the clutch on the A/C compressor.
:017:
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I could well be wrong, but I reckon that's more likely to be a low voltage issue.
I have a headlight harness on our ZJ and Ford F100, and both of those still dim the headlights at idle (especially when I'm using a lot of other power - heater on high etc.). The ZJ definitely has low voltage, and I assume the Ford does too (doesn't have a gauge).
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I could well be wrong, but I reckon that's more likely to be a low voltage issue.
I have a headlight harness on our ZJ and Ford F100, and both of those still dim the headlights at idle (especially when I'm using a lot of other power - heater on high etc.). The ZJ definitely has low voltage, and I assume the Ford does too (doesn't have a gauge).
I assumed the harness upgrade would eliminate any low voltage issue as the current is being supplied directly from the battery?
The battery on my XJ is just over a year old and the Alternator was rebuilt before I put it back on the road, around the same time. The dash Voltmeter suggests a decent 14V when the engine is running. :017:
The only other issue I can think of in my XJ's situation, is the headlights and bulbs themselves. The XJ was off the road for 3 years and I assume they might be fairly corroded, I wonder if you have a similar issue with your ZJ and F100?
I guess the only way for me to find out is to install the upgrade harness as it is very reasonablly priced, so not a huge issue, then if that does not solve it, replace the bulbs and headlights.
:ecomcity:
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I assumed the harness upgrade would eliminate any low voltage issue as the current is being supplied directly from the battery?
It eliminates the wiring harness/headlight switch as a cause of the low voltage, but it can't do anything about the fact that the battery/charging system itself is at a lower voltage when at idle (if that's the case), if you see what I mean :)
I've not really got any corrosion issues on any of ours, in fact everything (headlights, bulbs, harness, headlight switch) is brand new on the F100.
It still dims at idle simply because the charging system doesn't give enough output at idle.
In fact, all of our Jeeps have slightly dimmer headlights at idle. Even my XJ which always shows 14 volts, if you look closely at the gauge I can see the needle dips just a hair below 14v at idle, rather than the normal straight up position. It's a tiny difference but shows in the headlight output.
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I assumed the harness upgrade would eliminate any low voltage issue as the current is being supplied directly from the battery?
It eliminates the wiring harness/headlight switch as a cause of the low voltage, but it can't do anything about the fact that the battery/charging system itself is at a lower voltage when at idle (if that's the case), if you see what I mean :)
I've not really got any corrosion issues on any of ours, in fact everything (headlights, bulbs, harness, headlight switch) is brand new on the F100.
It still dims at idle simply because the charging system doesn't give enough output at idle.
In fact, all of our Jeeps have slightly dimmer headlights at idle. Even my XJ which always shows 14 volts, if you look closely at the gauge I can see the needle dips just a hair below 14v at idle, rather than the normal straight up position. It's a tiny difference but shows in the headlight output.
I took another look at the lights on my XJ yesterday and noticed the headlight bowls were very corroded, which obviously does not help light output.
I also noticed that eBay had a 3% cash back offer on 'Top Cash Back', so thanks to information in this thread I bought a pair of Bedford Rascal lights (which were far cheaper than anything with the word 'Jeep'), a Headlight Relay Upgrade Loom and some T10 LED side lights with holders for T10 bulbs. :003:
So hopefully these upgrades solve the issue, or at least makes them useable!
I needed to do something with the lights as they were candle-like on roads without street lighting, especially as most new cars have the equivalent of two suns for headlights and makes your lights seem even more dull! Must be a competition between car-brands to find out who can make the most dazzling set of headlights! Current leaders in my opinion are Mini with the Paceman and anything Range-Rovery, but I digress from the point. :011:
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With all that stuff replaced it should be much better!
I know what you mean about other cars, I've made the exact same observations. Any modern BMW/Mini or LR product seems to have horribly dazzling headlights. There are others too of course, but those are the ones I notice the most.
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With all that stuff replaced it should be much better!
I will report back when it is all fitted. :icon_biggrin:
I know what you mean about other cars, I've made the exact same observations. Any modern BMW/Mini or LR product seems to have horribly dazzling headlights. There are others too of course, but those are the ones I notice the most.
Glad you notice as well!
Right now it might be 1 car in a row of 5 with mentally bright headlights, however as more older cars are being replaced by newer ones it will soon be most cars with them.
Some are so bad that you cannot even look in the general direction of the car! Then on top of that, you have your entire cabin lit-up if one is behind you along with it appearing like they are flashing you. :jpshakehead:
:sign0023:
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Glad you notice as well!
Right now it might be 1 car in a row of 5 with mentally bright headlights, however as more older cars are being replaced by newer ones it will soon be most cars with them.
Some are so bad that you cannot even look in the general direction of the car! Then on top of that, you have your entire cabin lit-up if one is behind you along with it appearing like they are flashing you. :jpshakehead:
:sign0023:
I can't stand it, and it's so unnecessary. Give it ten years, and it will be by far the norm out on the roads. Hopefully autonomous vehicles will replace the majority of the sheep drivers out there soon enough.
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Glad you notice as well!
Right now it might be 1 car in a row of 5 with mentally bright headlights, however as more older cars are being replaced by newer ones it will soon be most cars with them.
Some are so bad that you cannot even look in the general direction of the car! Then on top of that, you have your entire cabin lit-up if one is behind you along with it appearing like they are flashing you. :jpshakehead:
:sign0023:
I can't stand it, and it's so unnecessary. Give it ten years, and it will be by far the norm out on the roads. Hopefully autonomous vehicles will replace the majority of the sheep drivers out there soon enough.
I do not understand how these ultra dazzling headlights seen on new cars have been passed as acceptable for safe use on public roads? :017:
For example, during an MOT, if your headlight is out of adjustment then that is a fail as it unsafe and dazzling to other road users, but how is that different to the dazzling and insanely bright lights on new cars?
Apologies to the thread starter for digressing from the point. :icon_redface:
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I’m going to continue the rant I’m afraid - after spending far too long researching driving lights it seems that for best vision at night, identification of obstacles, depth perception and penetration through rain, fog, smoke or dust that warm light is better than cool and blue light.
Unless of course all that I’ve dead is wrong, why do new cars all seem to come with dazzling HID and LED blue white lights? Is it now about the bling and attracting buyers more than actual function?
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Unless of course all that I’ve dead is wrong
Killing is wrong regardless; but especially so with over-zealous headlights.
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Unless of course all that I’ve dead is wrong
Killing is wrong regardless; but especially so with over-zealous headlights.
Fat thumbs, clearly I have no place in the modern world despite being only 12 according to Gaz and Bubba
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I’m going to continue the rant I’m afraid - after spending far too long researching driving lights it seems that for best vision at night, identification of obstacles, depth perception and penetration through rain, fog, smoke or dust that warm light is better than cool and blue light.
Unless of course all that I’ve dead is wrong, why do new cars all seem to come with dazzling HID and LED blue white lights? Is it now about the bling and attracting buyers more than actual function?
Good point and I totally agree, it's not just about brightness, it's also colour (perhaps one = the other?). :017:
A good example is to try using a white LED light in your bedroom, you will find it's bright, but something is odd about the way the light bounces off other objects to make areas of shade even duller, something that would not be as dull with a yellow light.
I know someone in the motor trade and he was saying that older HID headlights, which were the first mainstream lighting upgrade over standard H4-type bulbs, are nice and bright until another car is behind them with yellow H4s. He said that the colour tone of the H4s 'diluted' the white light from the HID and made them seem less bright.
That seems to make sense as the manufacturer's solution to this is........ to make the new LED lights even brighter and more dazzling.
If I had to guess, I would say that manufacturers all want to appear to have the latest technology and no one wants those yellow lights anymore when the Jones' next door have white lights, so all of them are using that tone of light, however because it is not the best colour tone for clarity and other lights have the power to dilute them, each generation of lighting upgrades get brighter and brighter. :icon_rolleyes:
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Is it now about the bling and attracting buyers more than actual function?
I think this right here might answer the question! Just look at the number of older BMWs etc. you see with white LED number plate bulbs to make them look newer.
Another observation is that I find white/blue light to be incredibly fatiguing. My eyes relax a lot more with a warmer light.
I feel like all new cars just seem to get brighter and brighter, but the only reason this is necessary is so that you can still see when another new car is coming the other way. The trouble I guess is that this will be an endless cycle, only solved by everybody having the same brightness of headlight!
I find the headlights in my XJ absolutely fine in isolation, it's only around modern cars that I struggle.
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Just look at the number of older BMWs etc. you see with white LED number plate bulbs to make them look newer.
I think there is another reason for those ultra bright, after-market, LED number plate lights on older cars and that is to make them more difficult to identify whilst still being 'MOT' legal. The MOT just checks if the number plate light works, not if it illuminates the plate correctly. :jpshakehead:
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Unless of course all that I’ve dead is wrong
Killing is wrong regardless; but especially so with over-zealous headlights.
Fat thumbs, clearly I have no place in the modern world despite being only 12 according to Gaz and Bubba
:icon_biggrin: No worries - I can't resist sometimes
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Unless of course all that I’ve dead is wrong
Killing is wrong regardless; but especially so with over-zealous headlights.
Fat thumbs, clearly I have no place in the modern world despite being only 12 according to Gaz and Bubba
Oi yuff, stop posting on the internet during lesson time :hysterical: :hysterical:
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Stop picking on him Gaz...his Mum wants her laptop back after school. He's getting as much mileage as he can, while he can.
:lol_hitting:
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Stop picking on him Gaz...his Mum wants her laptop back after school. He's getting as much mileage as he can, while he can.
:lol_hitting:
I wish, hit the big 4-0 this year. Almost feel like I should be sensible and grown up by
now.
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It's all good fun, this growing up business...I'll be 73 in a couple of weeks and I still haven't worked out what I want to be when I grow up.
:greggmo:
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Stop picking on him Gaz...his Mum wants her laptop back after school. He's getting as much mileage as he can, while he can.
:lol_hitting:
I wish, hit the big 4-0 this year. Almost feel like I should be sensible and grown up by
now.
40 !!!! Sarah will never believe it :icon_eek:
Nah, this growing up stuff is seriously overrated mate :icon_winkle:
Just don't leave your homework till the last minute Sunday night :003:
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so thanks to information in this thread I bought a pair of Bedford Rascal lights (which were far cheaper than anything with the word 'Jeep'), a Headlight Relay Upgrade Loom a
An update on this, I finally installed the upgrade loom and Rascal lights.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3RqW1XBm/Jeep-Bedford-Lights.jpg)
I think it tidies up the front nicely and you cannot tell they are from a Bedford, so great idea from daggie to save quite a lot of money from the 'Jeep' ones.
There were two issues for anyone else planning this upgrade / replacement:
1. The Bedford lights are a tight fit into the Jeep light brackets, you can tell the back of the light housing is a slightly different shape than the stock Jeep ones, however I just applied a bit of grease to the top and bottom of the back of the light and they pushed in OK.
2. The upgrade loom I bought was a generic one from eBay, so I had to extend every wire to get the relays and fuse to position where I wanted them. I would recommend just buying one that is made for XJs to save a few hours of messing around with the soldering Iron. Although, while I was at it, I took the opportunity to solder together and extend to the negative post of the battery the two Earth wires which come from the upgrade loom to Earth the bulbs. It did not make logical sense to me to eliminate one potential weakness in the system (the switch), to then introduce another potential weakness of two more Earth points for the bulbs attached to rusty screws in the engine bay. :017:
The Result:
Huge improvement in brightness for essentially under £50. Before it was like very dim 6 volt bulbs, but now there is a strong beam on the road. Full beam is also much improved.
So thanks to XJ Fan for the loom upgrade idea and daggie for suggesting to use Bedford Rascal lights. :icon_super:
My XJ does not flicker, but does have an issue with dim headlights, which get dimmer when the A/C compressor is running, it is very noticeable when the A/C clutch turns on, the headlights dim further than their already dimmed state :lol_hitting:
This still happens, but it is now only noticeable because I am looking for it. Before the lights went from dim to really dim, where as now they go from very bright, to a fraction less bright, then back to bright again.
From more research it just appears to be the way the older A/C compressor clutches are designed, it takes such a huge load that it takes a second for the alternator regulator to increase output.
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Good result! :icon_super:
I'd forgotten that those headlights are a bit tight. I don't think it's because they're for a Bedford, it just seems to be that the Autopal lights have a slightly different shape to the back.
I remember that harness being a bit of a stretch for me too, although I managed to route it so it just worked.
In other applications I've had to extend a couple of wires. I used those heat shrink tubes with solder inside them - they work great!
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So thanks to XJ Fan for the loom upgrade idea and daggie for suggesting to use Bedford Rascal lights. :icon_super:
No worries - I'm glad it worked out for you. I have bought a loom upgrade as well, I just need to get round to fitting it one weekend when it's not freezing/wet/snowing/etc.
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:greggmo: :greggmo: :greggmo: