Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: JamesH on August 02, 2014, 10:41:30 PM
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This is something I've put off doing for too long and potentially shagged 2 or more CV joints because of it.
There are 3 bushes that hold the front diff in place on the 05-10 Jeep Grand Cherokee and Commander and they are the same for all models
Symptoms of them being worn is a clunk when shifting between drive and revers, mine showed up most when shifting from park to reverse pulling off my drive. When really worn there is vibration too because the front diff is moving around too much and this is what ears out the CV joints in the front prop and can wear the front CV half shaft joints too.
This write up is a good one http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/how-differential-pinion-mount-bushing-replacement-1299567/ (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/how-differential-pinion-mount-bushing-replacement-1299567/)
I was going to copy this method of changing the bushes with the diff still in the car until I ran into problems :icon_rolleyes:
I ended up with a bolt corroded into the aluminium diff cover / mount that really wasn't shifting with the space I had to get tools to it. I took the drivers side wheel, brakes and hub off, disconnected the upper control arm ball joint and pulled the half shaft / drive shaft out of the diff and the this meant I could do the same the other side and get the diff completely out of the Jeep.
This is probably the way to go, I cut the centre of the bushes out with a saws all / reciprocating saw and then a hole saw after I broke the saw blade :icon_redface: so much easier not under the Jeep.
After much penetrating fluid, hammer blows, breaks and repetitions of this I got the bolt out of the front diff cover / mount and installed the new bushes on the diff. To quote Haynes manuals, reassembly is the reverse of the above :icon_biggrin:
Pics show some of the carnage. I'd allow a weekend for this job but if everything went smoothly it could easily be done in 4-5 hours. Hopefully this helps someone in the future, I thought I'd put it here even though WK owners are relatively thin on the ground.
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Nice for Kev to know incase mine ever need doing!
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Parts are only about £120 so worth doing if you take the front end apart to do anything else. I also fitted new anti-roll bar bushes, poly ones to see if the clunking on pot holes is reduced - will report back.
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Good write up mate for future ref :icon_super:
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Nice for Kev to know incase mine ever need doing!
:imwitstupid:
Flippin 'eck, I hope I never have to do mine ..... myself, that is :icon_rolleyes:
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I can't wait to have the garage built, hopefully in time for winter. Doing this job outside with thunderstorms is not pleasant.
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Let me know if the new ARB bushes has made a difference.
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i looked at these bushes whilst looking under a commander and thought to my self ................... runaway..............then rip the bastard out on to the floor
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It was easier just to get the thing out, disconnect prop, bush mounts and the upper control arms on each side, pull the shafts out of the diff then it's out and easy to work on.
The ARB bushes have made a difference, much less of a thud / clunk / bang when going down potholes. It probably helps that the diff is more secure now too.
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i bet if you could have got one of them go pro cameras under there that diff was jiggling about like a whores knickers before the new bushes
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Yep, and I towed the XJ to Normandy and back which was the final straw - completely fooked the driveshafts and propshaft CVs, which I still need to replace :icon_rolleyes:
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Bubba you listening to this, you know what's coming your way!
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putting a camera under a vehicle and looking at what moves and by how much during driving is very enlightening and makes you appreciate the need for bushes
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Bubba you listening to this, you know what's coming your way!
la la la la la not listening la la la la la
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It's not actually so bad job, the write-ups make it sound worse because they are comparing it to just changing a control arm bush or similar.
It would be good if someone made poly replacements so they wouldn't wear out but I couldn't find any.
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Replaced one of the lower balljoints on the WK yesterday.....and reckon I've got this job to look forward to as well. When nipping up the wheelnuts there was a definite sense of something moving, and a typically 'that sounds like a knackered rubber bush' kind of squshy noise. Quick look underneath when levering on the wheel and sure enough, diff leaps up & down.
Still, on the bright side, while I have the diff & shafts out, at least I can finally get round to fitting the new transmission cooler pipes I bought for it 3 years ago......
Thanks for the post James - nice to see what's in store.
Forgot to ask....where did you get the parts?
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I got the front bush with the bracket it sits in from Jeep Chrysler Parts and the two rear bushes (they're the same) from a Mopar dealer in the US through US eBay. I usually use Rockauto but their catalogue seemed to struggle with these parts.
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Thanks James.
Don't know how bad they are on ours, but I think the truck did a lot of heavy towing in it's previous life (was owned by a mobile generator hire company). It does give a thump when shifting into gear and sometimes, under light throttle, a really nasty 'twang' through the transmission when shifting up to 3rd. Be nice if that was the same issue as I did think it could be the gearbox.
Bit annoying as I only just put the offside back together, but I think the easy option will be to just pull it apart again, both sides (still got to do NS lower BJ), drop the diff, do those oil cooler pipes and service it all at the same time.
Sad to confess, but this is the first proper bit of maintenance I have had to do since buying it and my head is still firmly stuck in 'car' mode. Every time I picked a spanner size yesterday I got it wrong. You get used to what sizes get used for certain things on a car, and this thing is just, well, bigger!
Glad I got a decent rattle gun though. Came in handy for pressing the BJ in & out as well as shifting some reluctant bolts.
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Bits on the way..JCP did all 3 for just under £100.
One last question please...the driveshafts, anything I should be wary of when pulling them? Presume they just pop out as usual??
...and I'm going to get oil everywhere aren't I.
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Pop out, held in with a clip that needed a pry bar pressure just to help the drive shaft pop out. Yes, oil will spill out.
Glad you could get them all from JCP, they didn't have them all in stock when I wanted them.
Changing these bushes and fitting new hard anti-roll bar bushes has made the front end a lot better and the gears still occasionally clunk in but a lot less and less harsh than before.
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Cheers James - good to know it's made a positive difference. I had to do the lower BJs on mine anyway as they are clunking, but the more I think on it, finding the bushes now is a good thing really.
I grabbed the last front bush JCP had in stock which was lucky I guess.
Thanks for the confirm on the shafts. I'll be giving it a full oil change anyway so will drain the diff first. Looks like changing the bushes with it in situ would be a bit of a mare TBH so dropping it seems a smart move.
Just hoping I can get at the cooler lines OK while I am there. Looks a bit awkward.
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James have you got links to the collect arb bushes I need please
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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James have you got links to the collect arb bushes I need please
There are two types, you need to check your brackets to see if they have a ridge in the middle or are smooth.
These are the ones I went for:
RAYBESTOS Part # 5501589 Click for more information about this part
Professional Grade; Pack Of 2 Front To Frame; With Raised Center Bead; 1.34" Sway Bar Diameter
Part Image
£8.95
Tricky to provide a link from Rockauto but there are other brands on there. I went for Raybestos because I've had stuff from them before and know they use hard poly / plastic for these bushes so figured the stiffer the better for ARB bushes.
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Cheers Mate
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Well what a world of joy this job is turning into......offside BJ went OK last week, only took a few minutes to strip it all back off again. Nearside....not so much. Driveshaft is rusted solid into hub, broke one puller trying to get it out, put way too much force on another and still no joy so gave up on that bit. Then found the the fork lower bolt is totally rusted into the bush inner in the WB so that ain't coming out either. In the end, had to take the whole WB, upright, fork and driveshaft off as a unit. Did actually manage to find enough wiggle room to replace the BJ though.
Next job was diff out. Front UJ bolts just stupid tight so had to do them one at a time, repositioning the prop by undoing/redoing the rear CV to transfer box as needed. Discovered that the front UJ is notchy too, no play, but don't know how long that will last. For now, it's going back as it is, as I can't find anyone repairing that type of shaft, only the double CV type.
Got the diff out OK after the prop was off so tried to press out one of the bushes. No way, so gave up for the day. Today it'll be hours of effort beating the bloody things out no doubt. Still have to replace the trans cooler pipes and have no doubt that'll be an arse of a job too. Probably have to remove the steering rack or something equally joyous to do that.
Have to say, for an 8 year old vehicle, this thing is seriously unpleasant to work on. A similar job on my 13 year old Alfa not long ago was effortless by comparison, everything came undone no bother.
Shouldn't be legal to build cars without using anti-seize on suspension bolts. Gits.
Longer term, when either a CV or wheel bearing needs doing, going to have to replace both shaft and bearing at once, when the WB bushes go, will be needing a new fork lower bolt too for that job.
:banghead:
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That lower fork bolt is a git, I gave up and sent it into the garage when I was replacing lower arms.
The easiest way I found to get the bushes out was to cut the rubber out and then slice the outer metal sleeve (carefully) and then hammer it out with a small punch and big hammer. Easier that pressing them out because you've reduced the size of the outer metal ring.
I've got the double CV shaft so can't really help with the refurb but if you can find the replacement size UJ then it's probably no harder to change than what you are currently doing.
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Odd thing is, the Alfa has a similar setup and the lower fork bolts on those are notorious for the same issue....but mine was no bother at all. When the time comes, I reckon the only way will be to cut the bolt and scrap the lower WB. It'll be due for bushes by then anyway I guess, so no great loss. No doubt finding the bolt will be tricky.
Proshaft UJ is staked in so don't know how to go about dealing with that. Changed more than a few circlip types in years gone by but never a staked one. Maybe find a local place that can do them?
Bushes came out OK with the method you suggest. The middle of the top one almost fell out, so that was easy, I used the BJ press tool to push the middles out of the other two and after a wee bit of carefull sawing & a bash, the outer sleeves came out easy enough. New ones went in easy with the press tool.
Putting the whole WB, upright & driveshaft lump back in was, er, challenging.
Final kick in the nads was the transmission cooler lines. The set of special tools I bought for the job about 3 years ago....didn't fit and TBH, I don't think even with the right tool it would have been possible without dropping the cats off to give clearance. Gave up on that one - its been weeping oil from the flexi sections since I bought it - it can carry on for a bit. Knowing me, I'll sell it with the replacement lines still in the packet they came in.
Still, all back together and feels fine so just need to check/set the tracking and job done until next time. I did at least have the wit to free off the track rod ends while I was under there....
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Well that's irritating....just mooching for bits and spotted this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JEEP-GRAND-CHEROKEE-WH-WK-2005-2010-FRONT-DIFFERENTIAL-MOUNT-SET-BRAND-NEW-/261522917669?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3ce3fb0925#ht_3937wt_1161
Set of 3 duff bushes, the front one already fitted into a new steel carrier....for less than £70 all-in.
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Well I've just collected the WK from the garage (TCJ Services) and after having both front wheel bearing assemblies changed (and new front discs and pads) it's back to being the quiet, relaxed drive it usually is.
Lesson learnt from this episode is not to rule out wheel bearings a being the fault even when there is no play in them. They are cheaper to buy and easier to source than a lot of the other stuff under there.
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Result DING DONG!!
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I'll add my tale of joy as well - I wanted to give it a while to be sure, but having replaced the diff mounting bushes the 'thump' shifting into/out of D or R is totally gone and even better, so has the occasionaly scarilly noisy up-shift into 3rd. It was so bad at times that last gerbox service I was expecting to find chunks of gearteeth in there....thankfully the oil was clean and the magnet was bare. Must just have been the diff flapping about underneath as the torque changed.
Good news.