Topic: TJ conundrum (Read 9690 times)

willo · « **Reply #75 on:** February 15, 2012, 04:09:47 PM »

Could i safely assume that if the r and p count was the same, thrn likely i have stretched the tc chain? I have video to proove that the tear is faster than the front, and only after 10 revolutions.

isle of man · « **Reply #76 on:** February 15, 2012, 04:24:05 PM »

New one on me this....

If the transfer box chain is loose it normally wears a nice hole in the side casing - never seen one jump a gear - now I'm intrigued.

willo · « **Reply #77 on:** February 15, 2012, 04:27:27 PM »

But if it was stretched, that would act the same as backlash on the front prop, yes?

Iom i sent you the video...

chrisjones · « **Reply #78 on:** February 15, 2012, 05:12:12 PM »

You would get more backlash but you still have the same number of teeth on the gears and the same number of links in the chain so you shouldn't get a timing difference between front and rear urns, as IOM says, it's jumped a tooth.... But you'd hear that and probably see it happen too.

wildwood · « **Reply #79 on:** February 15, 2012, 05:45:52 PM »

You can hear the chain rubbing on the transfer case as it gets stretched, old, and abused.....................had that problem on the YJ with locker in the front and spinning prop the whole time..........non CV front prop.rogered....................one pinion bearing...rogered..............one 231 chain..rogered.................. job done

isle of man · « **Reply #80 on:** February 15, 2012, 06:31:44 PM »

Looking at the video the rear spins much faster than the front!!!

Did you do the same with the lockers in?

Bubba · « **Reply #81 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:06:34 PM »

i hate to be awkward here but you can only distinguish if ring and pinion are mis matched are with a single revolution of the wheels 10 revolutions may well show a diffidence over 10 revolutions all you are showing is that as the d30 ring is only three quarters the size of the d44 rear you are high lighting the fact that a perfect match to some ratios is not 100% and the 231 has no popper means of soaking this up on a hard dry surface

i assume after 10 revs the front is say 3 inchs out or poss a bit more if it were 3inches on one revolution i would say deff mis matched ratios

the 231 one does suffer stretched chains and makes a hell of a clanking when shot but would not in my opinion give your symptoms

and if it could make your symptoms it would bind on both locks not just one

i still think your symptoms are arb or cv related

i reserve the right to talk utter bollox at all times ............................... and hope the problem is resolved v soon weather i am right or wrong

willo · « **Reply #82 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:12:27 PM »

Quote from: isle of man on February 15, 2012, 06:31:44 PM

Looking at the video the rear spins much faster than the front!!!

Did you do the same with the lockers in?

Sorry, the video I sent you was not the correct test, as a) the lockers weren't in, and you can see the other wheels turning at different rates. Though I am told it gives the same result when the lockers are in, and the amount the front is slower than the rear increases at the same rate per 10 revolutions, eg:
after 10 revs, the front is out by 1 inch, after 20 revs out by 2, 30 revs 3 and so on and so forth.

So the only explanation I have, is the difference in ring diameter twix the front D30 and rearD44, I have been winding myself up merely as a result of transmission wind up.

Counted the front teeth this evening, and its the same as the last 2 R&P's 41/9

But then again, as Bubba says, why doesn't it wind up on both locks, Ah man.......

willo · « **Reply #83 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:15:11 PM »

Quote from: wildwood on February 15, 2012, 05:45:52 PM

You can hear the chain rubbing on the transfer case as it gets stretched, old, and abused.....................had that problem on the YJ with locker in the front and spinning prop the whole time..........non CV front prop.rogered....................one pinion bearing...rogered..............one 231 chain..rogered.................. job done

My TJ has done 40,000 miles, Probably half of them have been offroad.....

wildwood · « **Reply #84 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:16:07 PM »

So thats a 4.56.........on the front ...what's in the rear?

willo · « **Reply #85 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:18:52 PM »

Quote from: wildwood on February 15, 2012, 07:16:07 PM

So thats a 4.56.........on the front ...what's in the rear?

Don't know yet cos they wanted to go home. BUT the R&P 2 editions ago is also 41/9 and that was fine, I wonder if I have just been on a long goose chase?

Bubba · « **Reply #86 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:23:37 PM »

not seen the vid i only got 2 thirds of a screen kids have trod on my laptop

not a goose chase it should still not have ripped a pinion and ring gear to bits and the binding with no locker in is not right

the diff in the wheels rotating is easily absorbed by the tyres as its so little over so many revolutions sure you would get a bit of scrub but not r&p detonation

chrisjones · « **Reply #87 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:25:11 PM »

If the R&P tooth count is 41/9 (4.55:1) in both front an rear then the front and rear wheels should turn at EXACTLY the same speed regardless of the fact that the ring is smaller in the d30 than the d44. The only time that will happen is if the tooth count is different e.g. (50/11 which would still give a nominal 4.55:1 but it's actually 4.5454545..... rather than the 4.555555555 you get with 41/9.

Transmission windup is caused by the front & rear wheels not being able to rotate at different speeds (which is why you shouldn't run a TJ or YJ on the road in 4WD but you can run an XJ that way- it has a diff in the transfer case. It's not caused because there is a slightly different ratio in the axles.

wildwood · « **Reply #88 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:27:04 PM »

If the front is slower then you may have 4.88 in the rear?

puzzling eh

chrisjones · « **Reply #89 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:28:32 PM »

Quote from: wildwood on February 15, 2012, 07:27:04 PM

If the front is slower then you may have 4.88 in the rear? puzzling eh

Other way round.

isle of man · « **Reply #90 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:30:21 PM »

Quote from: Willo on February 15, 2012, 07:18:52 PM

Quote from: wildwood on February 15, 2012, 07:16:07 PM
So thats a 4.56.........on the front ...what's in the rear?

Don't know yet cos they wanted to go home. BUT the R&P 2 editions ago is also 41/9 and that was fine, I wonder if I have just been on a long goose chase?

wildwood · « **Reply #91 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:30:53 PM »

er........... your right .merlot to blame.............

math or even maths never a strong point...makes sense as 4.10 in the rear seems logical a few years ago before we all got more radical.

willo · « **Reply #92 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:36:05 PM »

Quote from: V8 Bubba on February 15, 2012, 07:23:37 PM

not seen the vid i only got 2 thirds of a screen kids have trod on my laptop

not a goose chase it should still not have ripped a pinion and ring gear to bits and the binding with no locker in is not right

the diff in the wheels rotating is easily absorbed by the tyres as its so little over so many revolutions sure you would get a bit of scrub but not r&p detonation

I will post the vid, the example I gave is a an under example

willo · « **Reply #93 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:39:00 PM »

Quote from: chrisjones on February 15, 2012, 07:25:11 PM

If the R&P tooth count is 41/9 (4.55:1) in both front an rear then the front and rear wheels should turn at EXACTLY the same speed regardless of the fact that the ring is smaller in the d30 than the d44. The only time that will happen is if the tooth count is different e.g. (50/11 which would still give a nominal 4.55:1 but it's actually 4.5454545..... rather than the 4.555555555 you get with 41/9.

Transmission windup is caused by the front & rear wheels not being able to rotate at different speeds (which is why you shouldn't run a TJ or YJ on the road in 4WD but you can run an XJ that way- it has a diff in the transfer case. It's not caused because there is a slightly different ratio in the axles.

I have just counted my 'spare' 44 rear and that is 50/11 which i guess is gonna be the same in my tj

chrisjones · « **Reply #94 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:43:31 PM »

There you go.

That would explain the slight difference, the rear is spinning marginally faster than the front. I'm with bubba though, that shouldn't detonate the R&P. It might explain a stretched TC chain though.

Even so, you would only really experience windup if you were running on tarmac in 4WD

Delk · « **Reply #95 on:** February 15, 2012, 09:00:53 PM »

It doesn't sound like the gears. If my math is correct using 4.56 gears and ten turns of the tires as a base. This will give 4.10 gears 11.1 turns and 4.88's 9.3. There must be something else. Two sets of gears will never be perfectly the same and that's why the full time 4wd jeeps run the 241 transfer case with the third diff.

willo · « **Reply #96 on:** February 15, 2012, 09:07:30 PM »

Can't upload the video, I am almost completely lost with this now. I am certain that it was wind up that I suffered the other day, as was on tarmac, but then why doesn't it happen on the other lock?

It felt exactly the same in 4wd low at 7s when the r&P exploded and that was on soft shaley welsh slatey shale stuff, pretty slippy, and it shouldn't have gone then I don't think.
So feck knows

Delk · « **Reply #97 on:** February 15, 2012, 09:37:47 PM »

Take out the rear drive shaft and go for a spin. This maybe useful to see if it's the front cv joints. If it's the tcase it may still happen but you will at least know it's not wind up.

Even windup should not break parts. My jeep has spent a good amount of time on solid rock with lockers in both axles and the tires will always slide but nothing has exploded unless it was by my stupidity.

Author Topic: TJ conundrum (Read 9690 times)

Delk

Delk