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[MightyTharg]

Damn, damn and double damn!

My recent acquisition has proven troublesome - 2003 2.8CRD KJ.

Test drive before I purchased it went OK - although was brief.

On the day I picked it up I drove less than a mile home, then approx 10 miles to pickup a jack and some axle stands.  Started driving back home and as I pulled away from some lights and engine started to spin up it cut out.
From this point I found that I could easily repeat this by trying to floor the throttle - each time it would start to pick up and then die within a matter of yards.  I then crawled back to the dealer = pootling along and keeping revs and engine load light - only got the cutting out once during this time as the engine did start to spin up a little.

Dealer hooked the car up to their diagnostiics and thought it was some kind of sensor but decided it best the local Jeep dealer take a look.  They did, and then came up with suggestion that it may be a fuel pump not providing enough fuel into the rail, but wanted to get it checked by a "Diesel Specialist" who confirmed their diagnosis.  New fuel pump was ordered, then the correct new fuel pump was ordered and fitted and tested by the Jeep dealer.

My dealer picked up the car and then found the behaviour is still there and (once the car is warm) easy to replicate

He's offered my money back thankfully but I thought I'd check your collected wisdom - can anybody suggest what may be causing ths behaviour please?

Cheers

[tim_aka_tim]

Just pointing out that your 2.8 is a 2004, not a 2003. American cars are made by model year, which can be quite
a way ahead of the actual year. The 2.8 CRD wasn't introduced into the KJ until the 2004 model year.

As for the problem, we're assuming the dealer scanned for trouble codes and didn't find any.
Fuel filter? Does it happen at high speed, or high demand? i.e. when you're going fast OR when you boost
the turbo?

[momos]

get yer money back, there are loads if you want another, its good of them to offer tho, .... but makes me wonder it might be a problem small enough for them to fix and not be out of pocket....sorry its to hear its being troublesome so new to you....
i'd ask how long the moneyback option lasts if anyone can help on here they will, where u based?

[rob.79]

Hi, this doesnt sound to dissimilar to the issue i had with my KJ, although its a 2.5crd.

i would first check the injectors, its pretty easy to do and i would have thought the specialists might have tryed it,

Remove all of the leak off pipes from the injectors and get someone to crank the engine while you observe, being a comonrail high pressure injector, they should be quite efficiant, and you should only get a light trickle from each blead off union/injector, should you get a jet of fuel or a flood then sed injector will be at fault... if an injector fails, the ECU will detect this and cut off all 4, causing the car to stop, (but doesnt put a fault in the ECU memory). the injectors hold the rail pressure constant, only releasing a measured amount of fuel and pressure each time they are fired, if an injector leaks the rail pressure drops too much, and the fuel pressure sensor detects this pressure drop, and cuts out the engine.they only leak off a little amount of fuel as the exact metered amount should go into the cylinder, and none or little should be left over. the injectors usually fail under load/on accelleration, and is mostly due to a worn needle, but sometimes to to contamination..  

hope this helps.

[rob.79]

I also have a used but fuctional high pressure fuel pump in my shed, (after spending £550 on a bosch replacement). i fitted a new one on the stealers diagnosis, as i couldnt find the fault initialy with my diagnostic equipment.
then soon after i carried out this test thanks to a friend at a bosch injection specialist.
 
the injectors can be overhauled, if they can be removed !!!

i payed around £175 each for 4 injectors, and had to remove the cylnder head to press the old ones out....

[Dave69]

and had to remove the cylnder head to press the old ones out....

that inspires confidence. what's the reason for them needing that

[rob.79]

they didnt do it i did it, we couldnt remove the injectors from the cylinder head as theywheere well and truly stuck, the dealers recomended cutting thema nd removing the head, they said they checrge around 30 hours to replace injectors if they dont come out firts time! i first tryed a few pullers and then made a tool to attach the injector to the engine hoist, and left the jeep suspended by the injector over night! tryed all the trciks in the book, like using cola to desolve the carbon build up, none of this worked so i had to remove the upper part of the injector with a drill, remove the cyl head then press out the remainder with a 30T press, and a big hammer!
 the injectors are bigger than the hole in he rockercover/inlet manifold, and this needs to be removed before the cylinder head can be removed... i was well and truly  buggered!

[ivanidea]

I know the injectors can be a problem on the 2.5crd, not sure if it occurs on the newer 2.8crd.

It was one of the reasons I was told to go for the 2.8.

[rob.79]

 i believe, the 2.5 and 2.8 are almost the same engine,chrysler common rail.. the difference is mostly internal, crank travel/machining etc, they use almost all the same components, and have the exact same timing belt kit/setup, the 2.8 having more power and an uprated map/ECU the 2.8 is def the better of the two... (the 2.7 in the grand is a merc unit? and much betterer)

The fault described sounds like a leaking injector and MightyTharg said there was an issue with lost fuel pressure at the fuel rail.. unless the pressure metering valve is broken the pressure must be going somewhere....

I have come across this issue on other common rail engines, it happens to ford engines when people use petrol or poor quality fuel. (morrissons poor quality BIO diesel)

[momos]

omg forget that shit, you just bought a jeep that dont go....money back, 30 hours my ass, it'll be more, not fit for sale, you are in a buyers market, ask what else they have in the local pool and do a swapper

[Mike Pavelin]

If there is metal debris from a failed component in the fuel system it can wreck a new pump in minutes.

[Bubba]

get rid

[MightyTharg]

Thanks for all the advice guys

Agreed with the dealer that I'll have my money back

Now looking around to see whats about - one downside of this whole affair is that my wife and my colleagues are now nagging me to avoid Jeeps, my 2001 Cherokee managed to not be usable each time I really needed it and now blow me but this un has been out of action whilst I've been recuperating from eye surgery and unable to use me bike.

Ahh well.

[momos]

oh no, there are loads of good ones, we can help look out for one, what is it exactly you want? a KJ?
 

[MightyTharg]

Must admit the KJ wasn't top of my list orignally, in fact I had thought of forgetting about Jeep and finding another Nissan Patrol,  but the deal seemed good and after all it was 1 owner with a full Jeep service history...........

I'm thinking diesel, probably auto,  2.8 KJ or 2.7 WJ.

Heated leather seats are a bonus that helps me in the sales pitch to wifey, she likes that kind of thing for some reason, mind you she also likes sunroofs where I always prefer to do everything to STOP the sunlight working it's way in.

I'm hoping to not spend more than 6-7k as I want to keep some cash in reserve for any suspension or tyre upgrades that my be "necessary".

[tim_aka_tim]

I hate to say this, it being a Jeep forum and all, but let me just say what you all know anyway.
Jeeps are, in general, unreliable. They can also be expensive to fix. Keep your misses quiet by
buying something Japanese.

You may all shout 'Stone him' now.

[Bishops Finger]

Stone him....

[Bubba]

its the truth i feel the newer [it seems] the more unreliable and spensive to fix

[momos]

  
you gotta love em

[MightyTharg]

Widened my search a little,  I'm looking at Nissan Patrols now.........

Not that they are necessarily cheaper to fix - I certainly recall being shocked at prices for a new carb on my old 2.8 petrol 160/260 and some bent bodywork on the 4.2 diesel all those years ago. 

They're definitely easy to lift and to fit decent sized tyres - lots of room under those wheelarches.

Importantly, neither of my Patrols ever let me down. 

Now if I can only find one in traditional UN white again.

[Bishops Finger]

Cool...