Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: Brynjaminjones on June 14, 2014, 11:01:38 PM
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The XJ is really testing me now.
After a (hopefully) successful and problem-free front brake piston and seal replacement, we moved to the rear drums to bleed them. One look at them and Mr. Mechanic told me that there was no way he was letting me drive the thing. One line was leaking a small amount, and upon closer inspection both brakes need the following:
- Shoes
- Cylinders
- Springs
- Brake Lines
- Brake line fittings
- Drums (possibly)
I really need assistance on this, as I'm not very familiar with drum brakes at all. If those bits all need replacing, are there any other bits that go with them that will need doing too, or am I safe to buy just those parts?
The drums were crumbling around the edges, but the part that makes contact with the shoes is fine. Can I get away with leaving them, or will I have to replace them?
I'm also a bit worried about the brake lines - I think I need the whole line, front to back. What does this consist of, and where can I buy it? Failing that, where can I get the fittings so that the mechanic can bend the lines himself?
Finally, what is the cheapest way/place to get all of this stuff? I have practically no money at the moment, so am really struggling!
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I'm with you in terms of "it's the next job to be done", and have never worked on drums before. If you need all that lot doing, would it not be easier to upgrade to rear discs? I read somewhere it is relatively easy, and offers a good increase in braking efficiencies. Is this something you would consider?
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Jeepey mart is not to bad on price...
Drums is a pain, I can never manage to get mine to work properly. Read various tales on the rear disc conversion, some say is good, while others says it made no difference what so ever.
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if all that is truly bolloxed get the spring in a hardware kit comes with all fiddly bits you need brake pipe fittings get them right get them first time lightys shoes and cylinders may be cheaper in a few places
note i usually re use the pipe fitting when making new pipes up
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brake pipes are simple to do, the flares can be a pain but if saveable reuse the end fitting or reorder new from Lighthouse are they are cheap and not off the shelf in the uk. If using copper tube then cover the length in shrink tubing for additional protection.
Flaking at the edges on the drums doesn't mean it requires scrapping. they do have a specified wear limit. the brake fittings most likely might need new spring caps, springs and retaining pins.
since you have a taxi handbrake it might have been an indication that they needed looking at.
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Make up the lines, get fittings from Lighthouse along with hardware kit of springs and stuff for drums or reuse old fittings like Bubba said. Drums might be ok if there's no pitting or scraping on the shoe surface.
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Awesome, thanks guys. The handbrake does have to be pulled right to the sky and it still won't hold on a hill, but I didn't know how they worked so never questioned it!
With regards to disc conversion - am I right in thinking that I'd have to sacrifice ABS for that, and wouldn't that be an MOT fail. If not, how much moolar would we be talking?
The brake fittings on there don't look like they're at all reusable as they're horribly rusted.
I'm still struggling a bit with the lines - do the hard lines run into a flexi-hose at each wheel? I assume that needs replacing too - is it a case of asking Lighty's for that?
I'm guessing I'll just call them up and ask for all necessary stuff as they'll know what they're on about, and source shoes and cylinders wherever is cheapest. 8-)
Does it matter if I go for cheap cylinders?
The drums are bad. The flaking at the edges completely crumbled away when hit with a hammer. I think the braking surface is fine though, so I guess I'll keep them on there until next pay check!
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You do seem to be having a fair bit of bother at the moment.
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Jeepey mart is not to bad on price...
Drums is a pain, I can never manage to get mine to work properly. Read various tales on the rear disc conversion, some say is good, while others says it made no difference what so ever.
Shouldn't you be recommending our own Carlos for parts? Not a rival/fellow forum! :jpshakehead:
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Rear brake lines are hard lines from the drum to a T piece that is then flexi up to the body. Just replace the hard lines. Don't worry about rear disc conversions, just fix the drums. The handbrake can be adjusted quite easily using a flat blade screwdriver through the access hole in the back plate. This will become more obvious when you see the new hardware with the star wheel adjuster.
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Ain't the hand brake adjusted on the cable?
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Blues Tis an easy job.....like meccano.
All the new springs are nice bright colours too so you can match them to the rusty originals and make as drawing of how they go together......also do one side at a time then you always have a 'go to' of how it should look. :icon_super:
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Cheers for the help guys - so it should just be the hard line from drum to T-piece that I'll be replacing? That's good as I was fearing having to run new lines all the way forward!
Shouldn't you be recommending our own Carlos for parts?
Hmmm, so does Carlos stock the parts required for this??
Finally, is there any harm in buying the cheapest brake cylinders I can find?
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Ain't the hand brake adjusted on the cable?
It can be but I have found it much more effective to pull the hand brake on 1 or 2 clicks and then spin the star wheel until the shoes bite against the drums, then release the hand brake. It's the self-adjusters not working that makes the handbrake so shit and it has the effect of making the rear brakes rubbish generally. When adjusted properly the stock brakes do a pretty good job at stopping the Jeep.
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Cheers for the help guys - so it should just be the hard line from drum to T-piece that I'll be replacing? That's good as I was fearing having to run new lines all the way forward!
Shouldn't you be recommending our own Carlos for parts?
Hmmm, so does Carlos stock the parts required for this??
Is Carlos up and trading on the website now?
Finally, is there any harm in buying the cheapest brake cylinders I can find?
I'd probably go with the cheapest ones, they might need replacing sooner but you might have a better budget at that point.
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Jeepey mart is not to bad on price...
Drums is a pain, I can never manage to get mine to work properly. Read various tales on the rear disc conversion, some say is good, while others says it made no difference what so ever.
Shouldn't you be recommending our own Carlos for parts? Not a rival/fellow forum! :jpshakehead:
:hysterical: man you a funny dood costs are costs and we owe it to ourselves to find the best parts and service wherever we can carlos lama and jeepy are not children they know the competition and it matters not what club or county they come from
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adjust at the wheel using the manual adjuster and then adjust at the handbrake cable to give a range of 3 - 4 clicks before the handbrake is fully on.
XJ handbrakes are renowned for the poor work ability and generally only work fully once per year
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I bought these 2 months ago as I though they were a good price. I had a mechanic do them.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300881317851?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I havn't gotten jeep back yet but i think the old ones sound better than yours. I'm down your way in 2 weeks if you want them.
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Jeepey mart is not to bad on price...
Drums is a pain, I can never manage to get mine to work properly. Read various tales on the rear disc conversion, some say is good, while others says it made no difference what so ever.
Shouldn't you be recommending our own Carlos for parts? Not a rival/fellow forum! :jpshakehead:
:hysterical: man you a funny dood costs are costs and we owe it to ourselves to find the best parts and service wherever we can carlos lama and jeepy are not children they know the competition and it matters not what club or county they come from
Just trying to keep you on your toes pal
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I bought these 2 months ago as I though they were a good price. I had a mechanic do them.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300881317851?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300881317851?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
I havn't gotten jeep back yet but i think the old ones sound better than yours. I'm down your way in 2 weeks if you want them.
PM sent, YJ drums are the same as an XJ, right?
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Do you want an unbiased look see of your rear brakes?
Downside is that i am working this weekend but could pop over in the evening next week if your back at home
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Cheers for the offer Dave! I really appreciate it, but the XJ is at the garage, not at home, so I can't really get to it in the week.
I'm fairly confident that I've not had a biased opinion on it though, as the mechanic doesn't charge me anything for using the workshop, his help, or even any parts (brake lines, fluids etc) that I use!
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I've got the following now ready for this:
- Cylinders
- Brake shoes
- Spring sets
- Self adjusters
- Hard line fittings
- Flexi-line and T-piece (just in case)
I should be doing this next weekend, but I'm still not sure how hard/time-consuming a job this is though. Including time to make new lines (I expect it won't be me doing this part though) how long should it all take?
Are there any tips or anything I should look out for whilst doing this?
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I'd set a day aside just in case but really it's half a days work for me and I'm slow and drink too much tea.
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After wheel and drum removal, just take lots of photos before carrying on so you can see how it all goes back together.
If you are really concerned, set up a camera to film the entire process so that if something unforseen happens, you can rewind and see where the springs shot off to!
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making the double flares on the hard lines will be the hardest bit, followed by getting the air out of the system
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That's good to hear! Hopefully I'll be assisted with the double-flares, and when doing the front brakes with assistance they were bled through in about 5 minutes with the suction pump my mechanic uses! 8-)
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I was a bit nervous about the brake lines for this job as Mr Mechanic told me that he might not be around a lot this weekend, so he might have to leave me to get on with it.
I remembered once reading that the stealership stocked hard brake lines, so I gave Carrs of Indian Queens a call just on the off chance that they still did them. The very friendly parts department said that they haven't done them in ages as not many people with XJs go to them anymore, but they could have both sides (100% bolt on, including fittings) in by 10am on Friday morning for £20!
I'm very happy, and much relieved!
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thats cheap
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:imwitstupid:
Feckin bargain :icon_super:
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Right, sorry to keep going on about this but I've found out that I'm going to be doing this without help, so I'm a bit nervous!
I've got pretty much all new parts (apart from drums and backs), and ready-made pipes. I should have plenty of time (4 hours on Saturday, all day Sunday).
Can someone kind of run through with me the order that I need to do things, what I need to look out for etc? Are there any mistakes to look out for that could cause more problems?
The old pipes and fitting are really rusted, so is it okay to just cut them off? Will the old cylinder bolts be reusable?
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeers
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As you have new lines with fitting you can just cut the pipes off at the drum side. You will need to use some WD40 type stuff on the fittings at the T piece as they won't want to come out and you don't want to mangle them. I have a little adjustable spanner thing that grips tighter the more pressure you apply that is really good for brake fittings, I'm not sure what it's called but that's a big help for stiff brake fittings.
It's helpful if you work on one side and use the other side as the reference for how it all goes back together. There's need for some brute force on the springs sometimes (unless I've just always done it wrong).
I'll see if I can find my workshop manual and send you pages so you can see the suggested order of work.
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Cheers for that James, just what I needed to know 8-)
I'm now Jeepless for another week though :icon_sad: :icon_sad:
I had a phone call from the mechanic because the people who share his workshop have left a Range Rover in pieces in there and they don't go in on Fridays, so there's no room for me to fix the XJ :icon_sad:
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Maybe jeepless but you can always clean up all your fittings and get some brake cleaner working on those threads. A weeks soak will make the job much easier.
Also take photos now of 'as built' condition so you only need a few extra when you're stripping it down. Don't think of it as wasted time, reuse it for something else like trawling the net for how-to's, so you know what to expect. It will give you herds more confidence.
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You may find this video interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70cB-plCF-g
I've been watching his stuff for a little while now, and find his style funny and informative :)
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If you have new lines then the fittings will already be there, so get some mole grips and take out the originals as they might be knackered and tight. don't lose the brake cylinder bolts that hold the cylinder in place.
take a photo of the brake shoe layout as this is always confusing when done the first time.
lay everything out as you take it off so it mimicks the installation. when you put it back together it wont be as confusing
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Well I quite liked the video.
Such a shame he bent the springs, ignored the wet wheel cylinder, forgot to clean and lubricate anything and filled the bearing with years worth of crap.
Always clean and protect the bearings and sliding surfaces before removal.
There was an old saying that went something like 'If it's too dirty to put back together, then it's too dirty to strip'.
Damn good starter though.
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Cheers guys, I feel quite a bit more comfortable now. I'd already watched that video 3 times - I often watch BleepinJeep stuff as I find them entertaining and genuinely useful.
I collected the brake lines today - they're absolutely perfect, and even have the metal coil casing around the whole length 8-)
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metal coil casing = corrosion trap
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Aagh, all is going well, but one wheel cylinder bolt on each side simply won't undo without rounding the head.
I assume I'll have to cut them off, but does anybody know what size they are and where I could find replacements ASAP??
Cheers!
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the are not metric or std english imperial.
odd american thread cant remember the size though, bad thing is you will find it hard to source one over the weekend
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Thankfully by the time I got to the Jeep this morning, Mr Mechanic had found some bolts that would fit after cutting down, and had already drilled one wheel cylinder off! 8-)
The rest of the job went smoothly and the handbrake works great, but upon disturbing the brake line that runs front to rear it started to leak, so that will have to be done over the next couple of days :banghead:
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I've got my Jeep back!! The rear brakes are now completely re-plumbed and it stops so much better, as well as having a fully functional hand brake that only needs two clicks to work! :icon_super: :icon_super:
I actually got it fixed on Tuesday evening, but I've been away camping since then 8-)
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Result
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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nice one
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shall we wait a month for the, guys my brakes are binding thread :hysterical:
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So full of cheer Dave!
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shall we wait a month for the, guys my brakes are binding thread :hysterical:
Oi, I'm hoping for that not to happen!! :lol_hitting:
I've driven it a good 100 miles today, and it really stops well now 8-)
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just being factual, off-roading takes its toll quicker on components.
cant beat refurbished brakes
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Haha, I know 8-)
Cleaning out drums is something I'd never thought to do before, so I'll make a point of doing it from now on!