Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: wildwood on July 27, 2014, 02:26:48 PM
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Suspension stuff.
Planning a 4 link rear 3 link front for the 1 ton.......
Doing it on the CHEAP
So no ORIS or Fox multiple bypass desert racing suspension fu with Nitrogen bottle back up in the pits
No siree. Going coils and shock........
Being wide track full width 1 Ton I can out board the springs in the front with the adjustable Ballistic Fab coilspring mounts
My question ( cos I don't have one in view) is ???
Can a TJ spring have a shock mounted through the centre........
I know the L*** d r**** lot use Gwyn Lewis + 10 inch or whatever shock turrets that go thro the spring....... No prob there.....
It's just that using non Jeep orientated stuff makes me feel not at all well.
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Jez
I'm sure i saw something on this in one of the us mags recently will have a look
my only thought is the the springs on a standard set up do deflect a moderate amount
Hell me trying to answer a tech question strongly suggest you ignore everything
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you have a welder and an angle grinder, the limit is your imagination
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Yes..... I might weld some Gwyn Lewis turrets to some ballistic fab coil mounts............
I see a plan developing.......
Anyone else got any ideas????
And thanks Lord Tim........anything I can plagiarise would be appreciated :icon_twisted:
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Oh boy dreaming again or so it seams
could blame the booze but not allowed to drink during the week
can't find the article anywhere
sorry Jez
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Interested to see where you get to, it might be something that could work on the back of an XJ :017:
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5 1/2" is outside diameter of spring so maybe coil insertion is a possible.
Thanks for looking Tim..... No Merlot during the week.......... ???? Ooh nooooo not possible'
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Jeep springs narrow at each end and this may cause an issue with the shock in the center.
The only thing I dont like about landy suspension is the use of short springs with dislocation cones because the come away at full droop. My opinion is any flex beyond where the suspension actually touches is useless.
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Agree.... Dislocation is pants and will lead to a roll when the weight of vehicle heads south to relocate spring with nothing to slow it down....... :hysterical:
Idea was to capture top and bottom of each spring so no dislocation
By using long springs (front TJ coils in a 4 or 6 inch flavour) and the Ballistic fab spring mounts and shock mounts I can alter ride height and level the rig by 5 1/2" each end.
It does mean spring and shock will be side by side as TJ front. But there comes a time when there seems little point re-inventing the wheel. :icon_twisted:
All I need to do now I'd try and copy the ballistic mounts....they have kindly supplied measurements :017:
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When I built my long arm kit I set my shock length and upper shock mount height so they are fully extended just after the springs come loose. My jeep has RE 5.5 inch springs in the front and 4.5 springs in the rear. They are nice and soft with a lot of travel.
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Running the shock inside the coil is going to cause issues left and right Mate.
Look at most custom built setups and the shocks are never straight up and down: packaging, travel, etc - there's 101 reasons why but needless to say, straight vertical isn't the best answer.
Also, unless your going to make a complex mount with the shock running through the upper mount - spring compressed vs shock compressed heights are most likely going to be very different.
So why do you want them mounted inside the spring anyway?
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My guess was to save space. I was thinking about it too, I think the plan would be to have a much longer shock and have the top mount for that higher than the spring top mount but can definitely see that there may be problems with the angle you want for the shock vs the spring.
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Yup was only space and packaging and the worry of an axle bracket on the front that would be coil mount shock mount and 4 link mount.......
But have got over that hurdle.....
Also JJ yes the straight up and down ain't too kosher. That YJ Mark looked at had Landy coil set up and was well clanky in the metal on metal dept.......
Apparently coilovers and therefore shocks are meant to be set back at 7 degrees........ At front
Well at least that's what Pirate seem to say :icon_super:
Thanks all ...... Great stuff coming through........
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Shock angle should be perpendicular to the top link at full stuff
If u need any tj springs i still have some +5.5" rears and some std fronts somewhere
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Packaging always comes down to what fits 7degrees vs 8 or even 15 could work find or be noticeable. It's a hard one to guess.
Now link layouts are easy lol
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shocks have always been vertical for ease in mass manufacture of car press panels inner wing.
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as I knew it the shock should be in line with the travel of the axle for maximum damping
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as I knew it the shock should be in line with the travel of the axle for maximum damping
Shocks are really used for "maximum" damping. Look at 90% of performance vehicles and they will be lead or tilted to fit the needs of packaging, travel, and then performance bc you can make up a lot of ground on spring tuning.
Jez ain't worried about all that - just space avaliable. But I'm sure he can package it.....
Shocks on the lower arms would be my first look.
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Aha ...shocks on the lower arms.....
I remember that's what King CJ had........ Seemed to work OK.
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Less is MORE !!
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Is your buggy 4 link at the front IOM?
Again.....it is a packaging problem with chassis and stuff in the way......on a YJ TJ platform.
All makes 4 link front difficult
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Yes four link - my advise is keep it simple.
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Just remember the farther down the arm (away from the axle) you get the less dampening they will give.
I've even seen them mounted on top of the knuckle C or top of the lower link mount.
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Have you started this build yet, was interested what route you took with the springs.
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Still scratching my head, and wallet on this......reckon it's awinter with woodburner on project!
Latest stuff has been removal of the LPG so I can weld and torch stuff in relative safety :hysterical:
Just been on Ruffstuff Specialties and Ballistic Fab to price up ......looks like $1,000 for the whole shebang for the rear, by the time it's done and dusted......
Main thing will be cutting the frame behind the seats and narrowing so it's the width of the tub ....going straight back and maybe two inches higher........
Will also be a time to stretch......yet again from 105.5 to 108 or 109"
Will then stretch the front when I eventually tackle that....... Final wheelbase 115 ish
The more I look at it the more it seems like a lot of work so maybe just the rear this year :icon_twisted:
Because of the weight of my junk....... 14 bolt and Dana60. Am going with front springs in a 5 or 6 inch flavour to allow plenty of compression and drop..........
As usual making it up as I go along.......and shamelessly copying anything I see along the way. :icon_super:
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Ive been looking at these folks, they can make whatever you require but id have to sell a kidney and a lung :hysterical:
http://www.avouk.com/MotorsportFrameset-84.htm
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Still scratching my head, and wallet on this......reckon it's awinter with woodburner on project!
Latest stuff has been removal of the LPG so I can weld and torch stuff in relative safety :hysterical:
Just been on Ruffstuff Specialties and Ballistic Fab to price up ......looks like $1,000 for the whole shebang for the rear, by the time it's done and dusted......
Main thing will be cutting the frame behind the seats and narrowing so it's the width of the tub ....going straight back and maybe two inches higher........
Will also be a time to stretch......yet again from 105.5 to 108 or 109"
Will then stretch the front when I eventually tackle that....... Final wheelbase 115 ish
The more I look at it the more it seems like a lot of work so maybe just the rear this year :icon_twisted:
Because of the weight of my junk....... 14 bolt and Dana60. Am going with front springs in a 5 or 6 inch flavour to allow plenty of compression and drop..........
As usual making it up as I go along.......and shamelessly copying anything I see along the way. :icon_super:
so you might be after my springs then?
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Yes.....just need to get my head together.......on WTF I am trying to do :hysterical:
After a measure up tonight I am tempted to cut the back off and make it up as I go along.....somewhat similar to he rear of your rig.......
As usual it's all about packaging stuff in a space never intended for what wer are doing.......
How much for the rear springs. And are they similar to fronts .......IE 5.5" across?
Not all that knowledgable about TJ coils"...........YET!
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Twas going to bang these on the rear of the Lardie. To remove the "effective" but primitive dislocation set-up from Gywnn Lewis.
Add some bump stops and create a nice tidy set-up??
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TERRAFIRMA-TF141-AIR-SHOCK-ABSORBER-FOR-EXTREME-4X4-AXLE-ARTICULATION-/181536950962?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a44720ab2
Wouldnt match KingCJ's though! That flexed like a limp noodle :003:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/Tenbulls/P1000123.jpg)
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rear tj springs are wider than the fronts, let me have a dig about and see what I have
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TERRAFIRMA-TF141-AIR-SHOCK-ABSORBER-FOR-EXTREME-4X4-AXLE-ARTICULATION-/181536950962?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a44720ab2
I want :ace:
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TERRAFIRMA-TF141-AIR-SHOCK-ABSORBER-FOR-EXTREME-4X4-AXLE-ARTICULATION-/181536950962?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a44720ab2
I want :ace:
Now that's more like it.......lol. If I put my financial blinkers on I can almost justify them........
Cost of adjustable coilspring mount, spring and separate shock and there is not much difference.
Between the two.......and it's a darn site easier to package on the back end of a YJ........
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TERRAFIRMA-TF141-AIR-SHOCK-ABSORBER-FOR-EXTREME-4X4-AXLE-ARTICULATION-/181536950962?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a44720ab2
I want :ace:
no you dont :greggmo:
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So no good then?
Read stuff about Oris as well some love em and some hate em
FOA?....leaks all the time.......
Who to trust EH?
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So no good then?
Read stuff about Oris as well some love em and some hate em
FOA?....leaks all the time.......
Who to trust EH?
Jez! You have been on Pirate4x4 far tooooooo long to know the answer :peekaboo:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/Tenbulls/1102-atvp-ih-king-shocks-raffle-at-koh-to-benefit-fast-aid-king-off-road-racing-shocks-logo_zpsb25dbfda.jpg)
You are just in Denial and need more "WD40" applied to your Slush fund to aquire such lushness :003:
Anything other than said Brand, virtually gets slated. So when looking for positive feedback on other types brands. There's always the, "Just Buy Kings" crew.
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:hysterical:
Yes I am in severe denial.........
I keep my pics of King stuff locked away with my vintage copies of 'Bigguns Monthly'
One day one day.........
Current thoughts are to hold off making a stab at it with what I can afford and just wait until all the planets align and I can spring for the bits I really need .........
It's not as if I have a truck that doesn't deliver........ Just one that I can't stop Effin around with :icon_twisted:
I have a feeling that apart from some roll cage grinder welding fu to cage the seats to the floor and stuff......that will be it for this winter....... Otherwise I'll be stuff with a bag of parts next 'Breakout'
Might spring for some Allied Beadlocks if various jobs come to fruition........
From what I remember there are some bad ass rocks that remain untamed at Breakout........
And they bit my butt last time..........antitramp bar and propshaft death........ :icon_twisted:
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I have tried most brands, so far ORI are top of the list - very happy with mine although they are due a re-work/tune now.
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New Build Alert? :97:
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AND.........
As Peter told me at CF .......if you buy ORIS.....
Wait for it........
They want you to buy SIX....???
And there's a big waiting list...... $ 700 odd a time........... But they are effin nice and do the biz.
Bet those 44s need replacing as well Peter......... ???????