Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: challengejeep on June 06, 2010, 11:44:36 AM
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hi, i want to fit 38 " tyre on my yj, at the moment the front axle ( a dana 44) is not yet fitted, would it be advisable to move the front axle forward to allow better fitment and hopefully slightly less lift ... the back and is no problem as it is gonna be a tray back now, and it will end up a 103" wheelbase ... i really want as minimal lift as i can get away with ... any advice greatfully recieved ..... jay
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Some cutting will be required or just hood the front and remove the wings!!!
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it will also become terrible off roading and more likely to flip over backwards when climbing cos your wheelbase is to short.
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he is extending it he said
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yup but he will need to move both front and rear to make it stable enough I would have thought
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yup move front axle forwards if you can will give you a better aproach angle too. 103 inch wheelbase should be good with 38 inch tyres. are you sticking with leaf springs?if so you might have to extend the fame forward with will bugger up your aproach angle gains. also moveing the axle forward will require some steering mods unless you are going full hyro, this could be a headache.
also moveing front axle forward essentialy makes your jeep mid engined which is good for stability.
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hi, thanks for all the advice,, i am gonna coil it allround,, using discovery 2 front radius arms all round... the engine shouldhopefully end up fairly central ish lol,, i am using a 200 tdi , and i am gonna hopefully use range rear props both fronty and rear,, only need to carry one spare then to all the challenges ...
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ooooooo yuk but i will follow it with interst ...good luck with it dood
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Man that's what I call a BITSA....
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Simon from BJC's YJ is currently at 102" on 60s and 38s, coilovered and linked front and rear. Works perfectly, much more stable.
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its rather nice is shame owen still around
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what do you mean yuk lol ..... simplicity is the main agenda with this truck, 200tdi - bulleproof- minimal wiring - better in deep water lol ...
is is gonna be a bit of a bitsa, mercedes g wagon back axle, d44 front, discovery gearbox and transfer case, rangey suspenion all round ....
not may jeeps in the wich challenge world, which is what its being built to do ,,, trying to build it on a budget, but hopefully showing that you havent gotta throw thousands at it, and i cant bring myself to drive a lrover 90,,, currently using a bobtailed rangey which is a nice beast, but loads of them being used now ... gotta be different lol ....
i have no doubt some people ( rivet counters lol ) will be upset that hardly any jeep bits left in it , but hay ho, but then some people dont accept it as a proper jeep anyway as its got square headlights :lol_hitting: :lol_hitting:.....
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at least the landy stuff is faily cheap to source and thats the the best you can say realy for it ....but i like the idea
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that about sums it up, having competed in range rovers for bout 10 years, i have all the bits i need ,,, i did quite a bit of research and from what i could find , jeep never did a decent diesel, petrol unfortunately totally out of the question because of the sheer amount of time it will spend bonnet deep in water,,, v8s, i love em but totally useless for what i need ... my mate competes in a cherokee and has no end of problems with his 4 litre, he says the engine is basically to long, and as its spends a lot of time hanging off a winch rope on steep hills, he was having problems with oil starvation at the front of the engine and knockng out big ends ,,, how true this is i dont know, i asked on some american sites and they agreed in principle, but they seem to tend to run v8s ...... , i need an engine that requires virtually no electricty to run, as its three electric winchs need all of that lol .... i have had my v8 stalling out during a long hard winch through a very boggy stage, it ended up basically winching till the engine spluttered, then stopping to allow the batterys to charge a bit, then winching again and so on,,, it cost me the bloody event ....
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its rather nice is shame owen still around
Shane will be busy on his BMW two wheels and all that.
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that about sums it up, having competed in range rovers for bout 10 years, i have all the bits i need ,,, i did quite a bit of research and from what i could find , jeep never did a decent diesel, petrol unfortunately totally out of the question because of the sheer amount of time it will spend bonnet deep in water,,, v8s, i love em but totally useless for what i need ... my mate competes in a cherokee and has no end of problems with his 4 litre, he says the engine is basically to long, and as its spends a lot of time hanging off a winch rope on steep hills, he was having problems with oil starvation at the front of the engine and knockng out big ends ,,, how true this is i dont know, i asked on some american sites and they agreed in principle, but they seem to tend to run v8s ...... , i need an engine that requires virtually no electricty to run, as its three electric winchs need all of that lol .... i have had my v8 stalling out during a long hard winch through a very boggy stage, it ended up basically winching till the engine spluttered, then stopping to allow the batterys to charge a bit, then winching again and so on,,, it cost me the bloody event ....
Interesting like the idea of your BITSA any photos?
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i havent yet, but i will take some when i am at my workshop, altho not too much to see yet, it still at bare chassis stage altho engine, gearbox and rear axle fitted .. should be intersting when done, apart from the diesel, never had one before ( apart from my van :lol_hitting: :lol_hitting: ) i have always had v8s, even my p38 is a 4.6 lol ...
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I considered the Diesel but opted for the V8 - I have a spare SD35T kicking about here with Lard Rover LT77 adapter plate on it- must find a use for it on one of the projects.
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a p38 rangey are you a self harming fiend
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would it not be easier to just stick a eagle jeep body on a range chassis?
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blimey, you really dont like land rovers do you lol ,,, i used to have a cherokee, i hated it ( still got it, sitting in the corner of my workshop slowly roting away, not to sure what to with it lol ).... so next turned up the p38,, i love it lol ..
i wanted to do a project with a bit of a difference, a truely modified vehicle, not just one with off the shelf bolt on bits, anyone can do that!! ...
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i ant a lugger hater but i was a tech at a landy dealers and man them p38s were......err......testing
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blimey, you really dont like land rovers do you lol ,,,
its not that I don't like them, I seem them everynight at solihull and I can understand the challenge you have set yourself, but it does kinda seem a waste of a jeep so as its for winch challenges using a eagle body would reduce the weight,so less load on the winches.
p38 hmmm so good they do a kit to rid yourself of the troublesome airbags..... ( and I am not talking an ejector seat where the wife sits)
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now I do hate em :headhack: :lol_hitting:
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Good luck with your project and the challenge events.
Tis a strange combo fitting LR parts on a Jeep, your gunna get a bit of ribbing on this site... haha.... noticed a LR driver at a recent punch hunt with JEEP socks on... no way would I ever where LR socks/fit LR parts haha... :icon_biggrin:
...200 tdi front pulley.... weld themselves on, bit of a bodge from LR (worked for them many years ago) they would lok-tight them on, can be hard/need breaking to get off. Otherwise good in the water... early 300tdi's didn't have ECU so good underwater, R380 gearbox crap, auto better... good luck!
Look forward to pics, what tyres are you going for? I run swampers for events. Cheers Maf
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i idnt know about the early 300 tdi not requiring an ecu, but i had the 200 so thats why i used it .. i can take a ribbing, bit of banter is good for the soul lol ... i am gonna run 35" simex for challenging, lots of comps are banning portals, and tyres over 35", less damage to the ground,, but i am gonna run 38" badger claws or something similar for laneing and triangle vert etc ...will post some pics next weekend, over the workshop on saturday, but if i passing earlier i will stop in and take some ..
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the mod would not use the ecu 300 had some and reterned them for re engine to non ecu no idea what they do now
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i idnt know about the early 300 tdi not requiring an ecu, but i had the 200 so thats why i used it .. i can take a ribbing, bit of banter is good for the soul lol ... i am gonna run 35" simex for challenging, lots of comps are banning portals, and tyres over 35", less damage to the ground,, but i am gonna run 38" badger claws or something similar for laneing and triangle vert etc ...will post some pics next weekend, over the workshop on saturday, but if i passing earlier i will stop in and take some ..
Good man, I went for 34" Super Swampers over Simex, supply problems of Simex and reviews pointed towards them, I'd suggest looking at Maxxis creepy crawlers, lots of sizes to choose from, have seen them perform.... awesome... also Fedima's... they are listed as 35" but are actually 36.5"... most comps allow them as listed as 35"...
This site is excellent for tyre info.... http://www.offroaders.com/tech/AT-MT-Tires/Maxxis_Creepy_Crawler.htm (http://www.offroaders.com/tech/AT-MT-Tires/Maxxis_Creepy_Crawler.htm)
Think 300tdi was made more ecomical... power etc all the same (I think) certainly the R380 gearbox was made to be that way... sadly they didn't test it properly and many had problems, hope all this helps, cheers Maf
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thanks for your advice mate, it helps loads but i will stick with the 2ootdi as i already have one lol ..
i will try and stick with the simex as there advertised size is fairly accurate,, some of the comps i do you have to drive your tyres under a gauge to check that they are no bigger than 35" regardless of what they say on the tyre wall ... probably insurance and health and safety sticking it where itdont belong lol ..... jay
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You want some thing like this.Cleggy
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aren't there other engines that are just as good or better.
the landy engine is realy unrefined and noisey that's before you geat deafened by the gearbox whine. used to r&d on them so you can understand the noise objection.
did you ever consider using a perkins as the 4bt and 6bt are good lumps for torque, the vw t4 5 cylinder is a good power horse by might not be inclinded to constant mud and water immersion due to the electrics.
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it will also become terrible off roading and more likely to flip over backwards when climbing cos your wheelbase is to short.
yup but he will need to move both front and rear to make it stable enough I would have thought
will you please stop typing and go do more reading or driving cause neither of those comments make any sence
you can fit the 38s with no lift mate and without moving the axles, but youll be riding the bumps more than i think you want and like isle said youll have todo some cutting but not as much as you think.
what events are you guys doing? i really miss doing events with kingcj. running around like a dumb monkey was fun.
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Just my opinion doubleJ. I ain't seen a pic of a yj on 38's with no lift and no increase in wheelbase, and I personally wouldn't do it.
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Just my opinion doubleJ. I ain't seen a pic of a yj on 38's with no lift and no increase in wheelbase, and I personally wouldn't do it.
but you didnt state an opinion... you said it would be crap offroad and kill someone basicly. which is complete and utter lies. look at what the guys in the states are doing all the time for the past 5 years or so. the tires are getting bigger and bigger and lifts (if any) are getting lower and lower.
I am by no means saying stretching the wheelbase wouldn't add to the abilities of the jeep. I started out with 127 wheelbase when i started wheeling over here. and I CAN NOT STAND less than 100, it makes me feel like im going to fall over... but thats me and the width of the rig adds alot to that also.
A stock jeep, with hi-line front fenders and some cutting on the rear fender openings can fit the tires. Hell there is more than one company that sells new wheel wells for the YJ so you can fit 40s if i remember.
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I don't remember saying it would kill anyone, what I could see on short steep climbs the possibility of it rolling over backwards, we have all seen that vid of the cherry doing it.
I know whats happeneing in the states but we all haven't got access to the wonderful stuff you guys can get for pennies over here, it generally costs us mega bucks
If its a stock jeep with high line fenders,cut back arches, inner wheel arches etc I don't think you can really call it stock.
I guess we all have different ideas on whats safe and whats not,not everyone is a hardcore off roader.
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Oh yes......... I know what front tyres off the ground feels like.......... BAD............
I've wheeled with JJ at Clyro Cheapfest and Kirton.......... he's seen me (probably) off camber and front in air............
Personally I am at standard wheelbase with 4and half lift and 35s...............and I do think that I am in danger of flipping it on regular occasions.
I know cos the front comes up............and gets air :jpshakehead:
JP that well known bible of things I wish I had or could do has a YJ 'no lift' on 40's......... It can be done cheap if ya got fabbin' skills.
Me ........ come the winter the front axle is going forward 2 to 3 inches and the rear shackle mounts are going where the new bumper, rear winch
mount lives to give 6 inches rear move of the axle..... Maybe 102" of wheelbase by then!! :icon_super:
I am stickin to 35s for the moment as the gearing axle strength and lack of funds mean its the sensible route.............
J20 axles (I know I've said this before!!) and I can go to 38s or maybe 40's but the vehicle will cease to be viable on the road by then......
So that is a whole new world of pain.......... :icon_twisted:
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lets do some quick math, shall we..... yes the dumb US redneck is doing math - watch out
you say 38 and no lift is unstable.....
38 is 8in over stock tires so you are basicly getting 4in lift out of them, which is also your basic lift that most people first buy. a simple short arm 4in lift. so your saying that any 4in lifted jeep on stock tires is unstable untill he lengthens the wheelbase??
thats the math - there is no difference mate. if its a damn good lift giving you more articulation its not going to really help much on hill climbs to where you roll over backwards.
last i checked hi lined fenders were free, and as for all the other goodies, they make them for landrovers over here, if you hate us for having them go buy a landrover or make them yourself. im glad that i make so much money and sourcing parts for 3 years is equal to them costing me pennies.
and if you wanna get picky on whats stock and whats not then you cant say that a no lift jeep on 38 is stock cause stock they come on smaller tires. ohhhhhh no
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Nothing to see here move on!!!!
H.A.P.P.Y I know I am I'm sure I am I'm H.A.P.P.Y
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i realy like the no lift concept or low lift if i had a cj7 i might try it but for now i am happy to not cut my old iron
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I want to cut the GUT'S from old faithful - the reverse of a "push up bra" Waggers will appreciate that!!!
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i will follow with great interest
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i am always happy IOM or maybe ive just sent too many months in the sandbox and am now having flashbacks....
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i hope things went ok out there for you and ya mates
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i am always happy IOM or maybe ive just sent too many months in the sandbox and am now having flashbacks....
I can fully appreciate that had some distant experience back when Maggie was in power service# 24810225 I was only in logistics.
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mmmnnn I guess this is all down to .....if ya been doing it long enough you want to move the goal posts/boundaries........ :icon_twisted:
What do I mean..well its like this I started with a road going 'I don't want to dent it' 18month old Jeep back in 95............
It stayed a road going dent free Jeep till 3 years ago....... 35s and I don't know what but I took different lines and just trashed more.........
Now I can only see one way forward...... King CJ / Double J....... But being 'Old Skule' and a listener of the Grateful Dead I am going to keep it old skule .......... Cos I can........ Cos I want to......... Cos I'm mad.......Yup. I'm gonna try to keep it 'street legal' for various sites! But I guess it will become a 'trailer queen' pretty quickly :icon_super:
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Keeping it road legal SUCKS!!!
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not as much a pullin a trailer around behind ya
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Keeping it road legal SUCKS!!!
it only sucks cause its harder and makes you think more, the tj will be road legal but till i build hybrid axles to help with the portal gearing. i dont think big tires on the street would be so bad as long as they arent crazy muds... gotta be better then old hotrods with skinys
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Keeping it road legal SUCKS!!!
it only sucks cause its harder and makes you think more, the tj will be road legal but till i build hybrid axles to help with the portal gearing. i dont think big tires on the street would be so bad as long as they arent crazy muds... gotta be better then old hotrods with skinys
Man **stands on soap box** when the Mafia (manly SILVER wrangler) was in concept first was to keep it road legal - now four years and three test from police request later I have decided to move on - Waggers STILL shits himself (he will not admit that but I see his face) when he rides shotgun the reason for this!!! FLEX simply the delay from steering and turning is shall we say delayed I'm kinda used to this but Waggers still has his reservations - for me now trailer queen is the answer - I say to others that are going through the MENoPAUSE the light brings much wisdom ** off soap box** happy KARMA.
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if you want to play plenty hard and it breaks that trailer must look like a patch of heaven ...............when kharma makes me comfortably well of it will be a suburban and a trailer on my drive next to the froader
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Trailer is the answer....Gaz will drive home.
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gaz truck or mr clean gaz
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gaz truck or mr clean gaz
What is the difference??? Mr Sheen is Mr Sheen and he keeps most things KLEEN.
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(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fashioncapital.co.uk%2Fimages%2Fstories%2FJoJo5%2Fmenswear_mr_sheen.jpg&hash=6207cec391f9c66595a22bc0d97157e338acacdc)
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Moi ? :greggmo:
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thanks for your advice mate, it helps loads but i will stick with the 2ootdi as i already have one lol ..
i will try and stick with the simex as there advertised size is fairly accurate,, some of the comps i do you have to drive your tyres under a gauge to check that they are no bigger than 35" regardless of what they say on the tyre wall ... probably insurance and health and safety sticking it where itdont belong lol ..... jay
Hi Jay,
Swampers/any Interco tyre really are bang on the sizes.... Fedima's when running low pressures will sneak in under 35", (I take it your gunna run beadlockers?) A lot of the challenge boys run the Fedima's, but they are a remould, so personnally I wouldn't, Swampers are awesome, but I wish I'd known about Maxxis creppy crawlers a few years ago...
Good luck with it all, cheers Maf
PS Have a good luck at the chassis where the steering box fits... when YJ's are lifted this area is under strain and can fail... something due to the RHD conversion that was done here.....
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cheers maf, so much blah blah blah been posted on this thread it was not worth reading lol ,,, i have converted mine back to left hand drive, using a range rover steering box mounted on the outside of the chassis, with the full width d44 there is plenty of room, which then allows me to mount the hydraulic pump straight of the bottom pulley / crank via a small purpose built propshaft ... i am gonna run beadlocks altho not to sure what the best wheels would be to use, i would really like some like the old mach 5 wheels .... cheers mate ... jay
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Weird this thread should come up again ....... Just been measuring up for steel to do the 38s and 6" either end this Dec.
This is what I am using as a template but staying Spring under and will have to have more tyre coverage. Mines LHD (as it should be :icon_twisted:)
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/front-frame-extension-525699/index3.html (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/front-frame-extension-525699/index3.html)
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cheers maf, so much blah blah blah been posted on this thread it was not worth reading lol ,,, i have converted mine back to left hand drive, using a range rover steering box mounted on the outside of the chassis, with the full width d44 there is plenty of room, which then allows me to mount the hydraulic pump straight of the bottom pulley / crank via a small purpose built propshaft ... i am gonna run beadlocks altho not to sure what the best wheels would be to use, i would really like some like the old mach 5 wheels .... cheers mate ... jay
Hi Jay,
All sounds good, you can also get a steering brace for LHD Wranglers, may help give more strength...
I've recently had these beadlockers fitted on to Jeep rims...
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi439.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq119%2Fpropref%2FImage005-12.jpg&hash=256fd9d47f6620bfc25dff5a79d1cc906470209f)
Cheers Maf
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thanks for your advice mate, it helps loads but i will stick with the 2ootdi as i already have one lol ..
i will try and stick with the simex as there advertised size is fairly accurate,, some of the comps i do you have to drive your tyres under a gauge to check that they are no bigger than 35" regardless of what they say on the tyre wall ... probably insurance and health and safety sticking it where itdont belong lol ..... jay
Hi Jay,
Swampers/any Interco tyre really are bang on the sizes.... Fedima's when running low pressures will sneak in under 35", (I take it your gunna run beadlockers?) A lot of the challenge boys run the Fedima's, but they are a remould, so personnally I wouldn't, Swampers are awesome, but I wish I'd known about Maxxis creppy crawlers a few years ago...
Good luck with it all, cheers Maf
PS Have a good luck at the chassis where the steering box fits... when YJ's are lifted this area is under strain and can fail... something due to the RHD conversion that was done here.....
My Maxxis Mudzillas now measure only around 33 inches tall even though they are 35`s,with 13mm of tread left,Simex 35`s with 18mm of tread left measure about 34.5 inches tall
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My Maxxis Mudzillas now measure only around 33 inches tall even though they are 35`s,with 13mm of tread left,Simex 35`s with 18mm of tread left measure about 34.5 inches tall
Yeah I had an issue with my 31" Buckshots not measuring as much as they should, where as my 235/85R16 Buckshots measure as they should be (31" in old money). I do run low pressure though, maybe some tyres are better at retaining their size on lower pressures than others? Radial/Bias maybe makes a difference?
Cheers Maf
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this may be a silly question but sure it makes a difference, do you measure with the weight of the car on the wheel/tyre or with the wheel off the car and layed flat?
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I think....? It must be with no weight on wheel to give true diameter (height).
Cos with 10psi in my BFGs I am sure they would be more like 31s when squidged and then measured from top to bottom. not the 35ish that they once were, before wear.
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I guess if you have them on the Jeep at 40psi (haha) then they would measure taller....
I wonder of there is a 'standard test' that the tyres are measured at for the OD?
The example I can give is when filters are tested for how long they last the dirt is actually made to a specification so that the test is across the board and they can work out how many miles/km's a filter can last and therefore change the media (paper) to adjust hence why filters are now lasting 20,000 miles....
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if you hunt around the web enough youll find posts on different forums about tire sizing. most dont measure what they say they are, and few ( mostly over 40in) measure bigger. i have always just figured an inch shorter for what i want.