Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: Bulldog67 on June 29, 2010, 08:13:51 PM
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ubelievably the 401 is in the CJ (with teethin problems naturally) so gonna try and be organised and sort the exhausts.
Its got hedman headers, and really first question is will it go thru an mot if the pipes are just straight thru?
Secondly, anyone got a steer for anything in this country?
Cheers
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There is no requirement to have silencers, but if the tester considers it to be too loud it will fail.
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cherry bomb
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cherry bomb
meaning?
There is no requirement to have silencers, but if the tester considers it to be too loud it will fail.
is that just on their opinion or is there a decibal limit Mike?
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Nosebolt: did Tonka go thru the MOT with the pipes u had on (and off and on and off :003: ) at compton?
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The EU has a ruling on noise...
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we need the facts & figures men: vospa dave & vospa panic
was gonna get them custom made but dunno if im financially in that bracket at the moment :011:
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Nosebolt: did Tonka go thru the MOT with the pipes u had on (and off and on and off :003: ) at compton?
yea but got an advisory on a little blow from the maifold
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but no noise issues, and they be loud
pet mot dood?
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garage is owned by a m8 but the tester who works for him wont pass anything that will get him into trouble, infact he failed it last time and i had to sort a wheel bearing and the lights, besides I like to have a real test to check my work
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cherry bomb
ok, worked that bit out, but which one?
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there is a set noise limit for new cars that are sold to the public, but as soon as the vehicle is sold you can fit whatever you want in regards to silencing but you are limited by age related legislation and cat convertors requirement.
but with old cars it is basically open season to fit whatever you want. the only et all is that the mot tester can fail it on the noise, but only if there is another vehicle of the same type with a quieter exhaust next to it.
as for noise at the tail pipe, there is a database of information for this on new cars (this was started back in 1990) but it couldn't be implemented due to cost as it would involve training plod and issuing noise meters which need to be calibrated acordingly for a price so the idea was shelved.
common sense states if it is too loud then you will get pulled for a chat by mr plod.
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cherry bomb
meaning?
There is no requirement to have silencers, but if the tester considers it to be too loud it will fail.
is that just on their opinion or is there a decibal limit Mike?
There are no published limits, but the tester has to judge whether the noise level is reasonable compared with standard vehicles of a similar type. Common sense says silence it to an extent that it isn't too loud idling or when toodling along a residential street on a light throttle. A tester also has to consider that if that vehicle is subsequently inspected by VOSA for some reason, the first thing they will ask is "what c*nt passed it with that exhaust?"
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Bubba has spoken
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/US-Cherry-Glasspack-Exhaust-Bomb-8-Body-x-2-ID-/380165796384?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5883a5b220 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/US-Cherry-Glasspack-Exhaust-Bomb-8-Body-x-2-ID-/380165796384?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5883a5b220)
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we need the facts & figures men: vospa dave & vospa panic
who the fuck are vospa? isn't that an italian moped? surely you don't mean vosa ( the gods of all things technical and boring?)
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Bubba has spoken
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/US-Cherry-Glasspack-Exhaust-Bomb-8-Body-x-2-ID-/380165796384?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5883a5b220 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/US-Cherry-Glasspack-Exhaust-Bomb-8-Body-x-2-ID-/380165796384?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5883a5b220)
so, is there a reason why 2" would be better than 3" outlet?
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we need the facts & figures men: vospa dave & vospa panic
who the fuck are vospa? isn't that an italian moped? surely you don't mean vosa ( the gods of all things technical and boring?)
see, i rest my case, u know all that borin tech vosa stuff :003
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Only cos I have had to deal with them and sometimes knowing all the boring techie stuff saves you ending up with a big fine.Remember in the age of the internet ignorance of the law is no excuse but it also helps you to bend the rules. Know your enemy!
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cherry bomb
come on come on Bubba or anyone, u know i is impatient innit, what diameter & why please?
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they be fruity without being over loud as for 2" or 3" its up to you mine are 2" but with a 4inch welded over them they are not the best thing for torque but you aint gonna be short with a 401
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Ok a 3" outlet would be better, but also a wide bore 3-4" inlet (airflow) as well, this will aid the release of gas the best, I take it is a v8?
I used to race, not jeeps, but you will for road use still require some back pressure, so maybe a small box 3/4 of the way down, my skyline was tested at around 3-4 thousand revs at 110-120 db, and always past for road use on every mot, this is because they don't test them like you revving the nuts off it, but I also used a 5" back box, this will give it a deeper growl, a 2" will make it louder, and higher pitched.
Most important is the back pressure, without it it will backfire and or run poor, is that any help?
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yup its a V8 :icon_super:
so wider is better, but with a back box, correct? I take it a cherry bomb doesnt count as a back box? any recommendations please? sadly i want a decent old iron V8 growl as well as performance
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Well width is a matter of taste as well, for me I would split, them one each side, running 3" all the way, a bomb could do it maybe as they are quite cheap as a box, then continue down to the back where a nice, tail pipe would look good.
Or you could try the 3" all the way to the back with a custom 3-4" proper back box.
You don't need a massive amount of back pressure but you do need some, to be sure I would go first for the 3 all the way to the back with a nice custom box and pipe of the size you like, if then it's too loud/ noisy you could cut somewhere in the middle and put a small box in
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Bubba has spoken
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/US-Cherry-Glasspack-Exhaust-Bomb-8-Body-x-2-ID-/380165796384?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5883a5b220 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/US-Cherry-Glasspack-Exhaust-Bomb-8-Body-x-2-ID-/380165796384?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5883a5b220)
so, is there a reason why 2" would be better than 3" outlet?
Thats just a sample bulldog have a look on his ebay shop there are loads of different lengths and diameters of cherry bomb i have a 2.5 incher thats 18 inch long on the turbo diesel cj :icon_eek: works a treat
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Cheers doods, so we are gettin there, 3" pipes going into a 3" cherrybombs about 3/4's of the way down the pipes, it is also my intention to have the pipes coming out of the rear (noise displacement better for me), so, last 2 questions (I think):
are there any practicality issues with havin the pipes go out of the rear (most CJ's seem to have them wither just behind front wheels or just in fron of rear)?
and ref the cherrybomb, quick look at that ebay shop Dave recommended (2nd time in a month i have been pointed towards that ebay seller), the 3" bombs come in lengths of 18", 22" & 30": what difference do those sizes make?
Much appreciated
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I prefer mine out the rear!!! :hysterical:
No really it's all down to taste, and as you say I think it's better for the noise, pipe sizes? Well the longer will deaden the sound a bit and have more back pressure, apart from that it's all about size when fitting
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Cheers
Anyone using bombs then? any views on size for a 360/401?
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are your headers the inside frame or outside frame type? if outside you will have a hell of a job getting the tail pipe past the rear wheels
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they be hedmans, so thats as far as i know, but the sloth says they are bastard to fit and will be easiest to take the wings off to put them on; does that give a clue?
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would guess they are outside the frame like the ones fitted to mine in which case you probably will have to exit in front of the rear wheels. which serves you right for buying them before me :wave-fingersmiely:
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ah bugger !!!
oh ell, gotta be a bit cheaper if usin less pipe, but im guessin that will make the cherrybomb a shorty to fit in there
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Saw a really nice CJ quadratrac 360 TH400 red on 31s at Bawtry....... (sorry no pics) seems the guy had had it for years and did a bit now and again.... was only doing blue routes and easy stuff as on All terrains....
However... the point of this was.......... his exhausts....... headers exiting in front of the footwells...(very neat) into stainless to stainless under rocker mufflers (motorbike surplus apparently) then into more stainless pipe..... and instead of a turn out..... he had a turn in.. to run between trans case armour and shackle hanger... and then to back ..........
Asked him about it and said he got fed up with the noise and could only hear half his engine...... as he did easy stuff..... damage not an issue.
just a thought.....
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I have the Hedman headers on my 360 and they are inside the frame.A doddle to fit and remove, having just had to do it to change the flexplate.These then join into one behind the transfer case,and pass above the rear axle.It all sits above the skidplates.
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I got the outer frame headers and silencers all from headman :13: :096:
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i was wrong mine are 3 inch
most jeeps with headers exit at the sides for simplicety and the fact that they remain tucked up high wilst froading
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I have the Hedman headers on my 360 and they are inside the frame.A doddle to fit and remove, having just had to do it to change the flexplate.These then join into one behind the transfer case,and pass above the rear axle.It all sits above the skidplates.
they join into one due to choice or necessity?
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I have the Hedman headers on my 360 and they are inside the frame.A doddle to fit and remove, having just had to do it to change the flexplate.These then join into one behind the transfer case,and pass above the rear axle.It all sits above the skidplates.
they join into one due to choice or necessity?
It was done by the original builder.Not by me.As far as I am concerned it is fine,it is out of the way,big enough to flow,and most importantly makes all the correct noises.
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you can run a split system but it will never idle as smoothly as a system that collects into 1 tailpipe If you look under most V8 engines cars especially US ones they run a crossover box that gives them that lovely even burble, with out it they tend to sound like 2 harleys strapped to the side of your car... yes I have heard bubba's sounding exactly like it this from a good distance away....
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bollox :011:
so altho i thort 2 tail pipes were essential, a new skool of thort is suggesting just the 1
how the bloody hell am i gonna work out which i prefer without wastin cash :017:
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give me your unseable headers and go to kwikfit :hysterical:
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hmmmm, u want my rover headers? they are yours mate, gratis :003:
can i start a poll mid post? 2 or 1 tailpipes :017:
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bollox :011:
so altho i thort 2 tail pipes were essential, a new skool of thort is suggesting just the 1
how the bloody hell am i gonna work out which i prefer without wastin cash :017:
you can do either but at around 12mpg there won't be much difference bar the sound.
I like the " wake the fucking neighbours up" sound myself.
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so 2 then?
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yup mounted under each side exiting just ahead of each rear wheel so when stuck in muddy water at cheapfest , you can drown the bastards laughing at ya to the side.
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seems a plan :003:
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normal has hedman hugger hedders yours are fenderwel a balance pipe wont afect tickover a bit thats just crap the main benifit of a balance pipes or two in to one is better cylinder purge on exhaust stroke and blended note
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o and huggers dont normaly work with auto cjs
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remember the MOT is only valid at the time of test. as soon as you leave the station the paper realy doesn't mean much except it passed at said time on said day.
all mr plod or VOSA will do is give you a rectification notice or a vehicle asbo for you to put a more acceptable silencer on and get it re tested. The downside of this is that if your stopped again there is the chance you could get your vehicle impounded or crushed (this is worse case scenario).
common sense at the end of the day if you think it's too loud then it probably is. once pulled they will then check the rest of the jeep over for roadworthyness.
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o and huggers dont normaly work with auto cjs
:icon_eek: mine are hedmans, they are the ones that u recommended djrr6 got, are u sayin they aint gonna work :010:
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will you put your ears on fer fuck sake
A/ heddman headers fenderwell the type you have fit all amc v8s in a cj and exit at the sides they are the best and easyest to use on a modded cj
B/ heddman headers hugger [they hug the engine block] the type normal has are good but dificult to use and may need some special piping depending on gearbox thats why i say they dont normaly work with autos it can be done but its nowhere as easy plus you would want to consider extra auto cooling
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ahhhh, phew, and cool :greggmo:
so, we got two pipes, 3" in diameter, goin into a 18-22" cherrybombs, comin out just in front of the rear tyres
agreed?
any further considerations?
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BD post fekin picture and we can tell you what you have for sure
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no can do for a while, they not livin with me, and i never kept the pics that dave sent (unless they at work, will check 2mrw)
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o and huggers dont normaly work with auto cjs
Mine is indeed an auto,and as you subsequently mentioned,mucho pipework has been done,but to be honest it doesn't look too complex.
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a balance pipe wont afect tickover a bit thats just crap the main benifit of a balance pipes or two in to one is better cylinder purge on exhaust stroke and blended note
You contradict yourself,the whole point of a crossover box as you say is to purge the cylinder of exhaust gases,without one the cylinders don't empty as effectively and the incoming fuel charge doesn't fill the chamber,hence you get an uneven burn,it is well documented and less pronounced in a v8, but it is there.
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i dont at all it wont afect actual tickover now piss off
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:wsmile: your still wrong
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well we shall just have to agree to disagree then
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nah your still wrong :tool:
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oh nooooo :icon_eek: who do i trust :017: its all so difficult :jpshakehead:
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its all about Volumetric efficiency etc, all very technicall stuff (and very long and boring now i look back on it) and stuff I last wrote about when I was in my exams 27 years ago but i doubt many of the laws of physics have changed since then.
The reality of it all in layman terms is a split exhaust system does idle rougher and can stumble on initial rising of revs due to the the poorer way in which unburnt fuel and exhaust gases enter/exit the cylinder, on a merged system the pressure waves evacuate the cylinder in a more efficient manner, hence a smoother idle and improved fuel burning efficiency.
A split system does become more efficient as the revs rise and in the same way a merged system loses it efficiency as the revs rise.
Its one of the things that has helped modern v8's rev much higherand faster, than the older engines.
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oh dear :jpshakehead:
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don't worry they never made a v8 tj steve......you won't have to worry about it. tho it would be nice to see one. :icon_winkle:
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it wont have a bearing on tickover and yes its very boring indeed
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it wont have a bearing on tickover and yes its very boring indeed
it does.you been banging your head on diesels for too long , you must be deaf.
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nope
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wash your ears out while you are in the bath mate. :lol_hitting:
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don't worry they never made a v8 tj steve......you won't have to worry about it. tho it would be nice to see one. :icon_winkle:
why dont you build one then, there are plenty about in the US and the bits are available
happy with my I6's thank you very much so as you say, i wont worry :icon_rolleyes:
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why dont you build one then, there are plenty about in the US and the bits are available
2 answers to that.
1, I haven't got the space to park a tj up and leave it a few years to mature.
2, I ain't got the money, the ones I got already are seeing to that.
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do something about it then instead of having a pop at me and my jeeps all the time
Birtys is getting all talk and nothing done, not just you rob, its everywhere, no off road events etc, just talk about this part and rebuilding this in the hope it will one day show it mud. When was the last Birtys event, check when the next one is too
Rant over, i will go back to my trucks :greggmo:
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do something about it then instead of having a pop at me and my jeeps all the time
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give up you lot. we are all mates remember. who gives a fuck about the science of exausts as long as ya got an mot and it runs. or bendys jeep graveyard. as for events we can only do the ones where we know there are folk coming along cos sadly i aint got the money to pay for em for ya and its only club members that turn up that cover the costs. no one has any money and this is gonna have an affect on what we can do. i aint gonna go booking sites that cost £200 a day for three jeeps to turn up. the club wont last five minuits like that and i aint prepared to risk the club. we just gotta try do what we can for now. lets just get together when we all can and have a good chat and try come up with a game plan. chill guys i know its tuff but its the way it is.
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Name a site that costs £200 a day or lets go and infest another PnP site or alternative club event...We need offroading/laning fun.... :icon_super:
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Well infest away that's what its about ain't it........ just gettin' to go offroad.....and I don't care what the others drive....
So for me .......apart from Cheapfest
There's Kirton..... sadly me, JJ and King CJ last time..... I did spot 2 other Jeeps from Jeepclub... that I knew from Brands Hatch area 2 years ago!
There's Bawtry that I've been to 3 times .... obviously not near enough for others?
There's Jeepey thing at Tong comin' up
More Bawtry
More Kirton.....
But then I don't and won't do any J33 stuff 'cos its too far west from out here in the fens.... too many days away and stuff.
There is stuff happening..... just takes time and money................
But sometimes it takes a phonecall from a mate to make me go.......... Cos its always easier to take some'at apart or weld something back on and tit around than make the journey.............
and nowadays the YJ is too focused for what I built it for to be enjoyable and relaxing on the road, so I'm just glad to get there and say hello to mates and get to offroad..........
We've all got other things in life and reasons not to do this...... but ......and I've had this conversation with others 2 weekends ago........
Sometimes I could kick it into touch and just stick with bikes and do more traveling, but here's the rub I 've met more people who I'm happy to call friends doing this the last 12 years than in anything that I have been involved with prior to Jeeping, So I'm here for as long as I can cos I like to be with people who seem to have the same focus......... Basically I'm at the stage of life where I avoid assholes as much as possible
Doing this seems asshole proof.... I hope it continues that way.......
If that was a rant then rant over...... have a gooooood weekend Birtys
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balance pipes on a v8 jeep engine, not realy needed bue to the lazy engine and not realy a stroker of performance lump is it.
the only thing the balance pipe does is help the removal of the gasses from two opposing cylinders which are firing almost at the same time.
all it will do is increase peak power by not alot and smooth off the idle.
none of the above is really going to make earth changing inprovements to an old jeep V8. if it was a performance unit running fuel injection then yes it is something that is advised to be fitted.
a nice lumpy heavy idle is the sound of a V8 so dont bother to fit plus the routing can be a pita if your running the exit behind the front wheel
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dave you dead right mate. its the sound of a nice lumpy v8 that counts and lets face it we aint drivin racing cars are we. rob cant you get a job with an f1 team ? recon you could put em right on a few things :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :ecomcity:
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it will only smooth the sound at tickover dave they can indeed help in a small way with output as the revs clime but not in all cases there have historicly been just as many split systems as the have been x or cross pipe deisgns
what is garanteed in all cases is smoother refined sound
but that is not always the end aim and i like my v8s a bit raw
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http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0505em_exh/index1.html (http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0505em_exh/index1.html)
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I have the Hedman headers on my 360 and they are inside the frame.A doddle to fit and remove, having just had to do it to change the flexplate.These then join into one behind the transfer case,and pass above the rear axle.It all sits above the skidplates.
joined mine at side of trans ....ran drivers side pipe in front of gear box crossmember then ran to rear in 3" pipe used 2.5" pipe for front and altered a grand espace back box as was a through type (2" in 2" out) by putting a 3" pipe through middle and re welding.. it works a treat and cost me around £68 in bits.....
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........................... a grand espace back box as was a through type (2" in 2" out) by putting a 3" pipe through middle and re welding.. it works a treat and cost me around £68 in bits.....
:icon_eek: i have one of those bastards, and ya a feckin madman, the fecker will break and cost u an overdraft !!!
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makes no real difference to me as i'm with an I6. TBH a nice heavy v8 idle is always better than a smooth one. irrespective of exhaust design and routing
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:icon_eek: i have one of those bastards, and ya a feckin madman, the fecker will break and cost u an overdraft !!!
don't be like that cjs aren't that bad :icon_winkle: what sort of hp torque has the 401?
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according to jeeptech.com
AMC 401 V8
Bore x Stroke 4.165" x 3.68"
Displacement 401 (6.57L)
Compression Ratio 8.35:1
Horsepower (net) 215@4400
Torque (net) 320@2800
Main Bearings 5
Valve Configuration OHV
Fuel 4bbl
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Are you any clearer about what you are going to do with the exhaust bulldog because reading this thread im very confused and glad i only have 4 and 6 cylinders to worry about. :greggmo:
The scrambler will probably end up with a cherry bomb on it, if only for ease of fitment with them being so compact.
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:hysterical: yeah, i was figurin a half a doz posts for this thread
so, the plan is: two pipes, 3" in diameter, goin into a 18-22" cherrybombs (3"), comin out either side just in front of the rear tyres
i need to make sure folk hear me comin :icon_super:
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except i have just discovered: CHERRY BOMB 4" LARGE CASE (CB4/1) 3" BORE so I may go a bit bigger case
Im sure there will be a good and bad reason to do that :003: