Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: Rikk on October 26, 2005, 02:01:42 PM
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Hi chaps, been lurking for a while and would like to ask a couple of q's.
I have a Grand Cherokee which I use for greenlaning and would like to make it more capable.
I'm looking to get a 3 inch lift and was thinking of the procomp lift kit which I would get fitted by someone like mdg, anyone using this kit with likes and dislikes?
I also need to get bushes sorted front and rear as I'm getting knocking going over bumps etc, would it be worthwhile getting them replaced with polybushes while getting the lift done?
I currently have AT tyres but would like something better suited to muddy greenlanes which brings me to.
Once the lift/bushes are done I'd like to fit bigger wheels/tyres what would be the largest I could go for without needing to change gearing? and what would be the best onroad tyre thats also a capable agresisve AT or MT? A couple of people recommended procomp x-terrain, would these fit the bill as a good offroad and onroad tyre? btw I'm not worried about having to replace them every 10-20k miles
Almost forgot, after a run in with a home built offroad course (not mine) I would like to sort some underbody protection, what needs protecting, where can I get this from and is it simple enough to fit yourself?
Thanks for listening
............Rikk
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Hiya Rikk
Welcome to the Dastards
I'd go for BFG MT's myself
What year is your Grand?
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Doh, missed the obvious
it's a 98 orvis
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Hiya Rikk, seen you had a go at the 4x4 haters in the ukfamily forum, good on ya, Im the one winding them up :D
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Procomp seem to be set very stiff, I wouldn't use the es9000 shocks if doing much road us, stick to the oil ones. Also if you polybush it get genuine polybush and get the comfort ones, the normal ones transfer too much noise into the cabin (persolally I'd stick with rubber ones)
For tyres I'd stick with AT's until you get fed up of getting stuck
Muds can be noisey and are horrible on icey roads, being a cheapskate I use Colway tyres, copies of BFG patterns and dirt cheap, and so much better than any goodyear tyre in the wet
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Procomp seem to be set very stiff, I wouldn't use the es9000 shocks if doing much road us, stick to the oil ones.
I just have to disagre with ya there Steve 8)
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who says you right :butthead:
I prefer soft setups & find the 9000 too harsh for me
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Mate honestly the ES9000,s on the ZJ were like being in a boat it was that soft, maybe it was the springs in the procomp kit as well.
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Neither are right it's just your opinion. Everyone I've spoken to who has had leaf springs from there have said they are stiff, and those with coils have said they are soft, am I right?
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nope, ran the shocks on thier own with standard springs.
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Fair point there Ding.
As to answer Riks's question
Soft on a ZJ
Harder on a XJ
Should we agree on thet gents?
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think procomp try to do a catch all shock, I have had them on XJ's (way, way to stiff, especially on the rear) & a TJ (standard springs). I think they may be better on the Grand due to the weight but its personal taste, on a standard height TJ they ruined the ride, on a XJ standard or lifted they were too harsh for me. I am on the lookout for some oil shocks for my current XJ as I want armchair ride more
than
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Armchair ride mode sounds good to me as well!
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Personally, tyre wise BFG's are expensive. I have Cooper Discoverer STTs (I paid £85 a corner fitted and balanced) and I think they're great. Nice tread pattern, good side pattern and a different compound which means they wear well and give better traction in the wet. I have found them great off road too.
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£85 per corner? TO be honest thats what I paid for me BFG,s
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That's a good price, that may have swayed my decision!! (Bronco have 31x10.5R15 for £120 something...)
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I pay £38 for colways
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Aint Colways remoulds
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the term is recycled these days, and they are just as good as non remoulds (better imho)
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Cheers for the info gents. I do prefure a stiffer ride as I like to feel what I'm driving on and how the car reacts.
I do tend to drive the jeep quite hard, how much did you find having the lift and larger tyres affected the general driving and how much did you find it slow down acceleration?
I do a lot of mway driving during the summer doing photography shoots at the weekends and crusie along at 80-90 any issues with the lift and tyres doing this kind of driving??
The standard wheels are fitted at the moment, I was looking at getting some chrome moduler wheels, the standard ones are 9inch? so would need 10.5 inch to fit that size?
I currently use Birdgestone 694 AT's and find them exceptional on road and great offroad untill it gets really sticky then it's running on slicks 
What is the size of the wheels/tyres in your avatar pic owen? just to give me an idea of size.
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Rikk
Have a google on NAGCA and have a look at what the Yanks do to their grands
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In the avitar they are standard wheels with 31/1050 BFG AT,s
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I have to say Owens old ZJ is super plush with the procomp shocks.
I'd say, if anything, a bit too soft for the road.
Steve, if you're looking for shocks for the XJ try the skyjacker soft ride ones, they're real nice.
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Hmmm, the GC is soft enough now I'd hate to have it any softer, after driving mercs and bmws I tend to throw it around and like feedback from the road.
Blimey the guys on that nagca forum really don't like procomp much.
have to see if I can track someone down local to me and ponce a ride :)
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Been looking around at tyres and wheels and had a thought, please tell me if this is dumb.
Ok, suggested size was 31/10.5/16 I'd like something with more offroad grip than my AT's but obviously going for that Ill loose onroad grip because of less rubber on the road.
What about dropping in wheel size to 15's then going for a 31/12.5/15 this would seem to give about 1.5inches extra width for the same diameter so more rubber on the road.
Ok I got my flame retardant newbie suit on go for it 
..........Rikk
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No need for the fire proof pants!
You may struggle with clearance with the 12.5" tyres.
When on full lock they're gonna hit the inner arches unless you back your steering stops right off. (OK if you can live with the turning circle of a battle ship)
AND when you stuff the tyre right up into the arch on full conpression I think you'll find they hit the outside edge of the arch.
You're gonna struggle to find a tyre that's very good on and off road. you need to make a compromise. AT's are good all rounders but will suffer in the mud. Mud's are gonna suffer on wet roads.
What are you going to be driving on most of the time?
You could always get a cheap set of wheels and stick some colway muds on them just for off road.
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Whatever you think about tyre suppliers, in my opinion whatever tyre you want you will never get it cheaper than at www.mytyres.co.uk (http://www.mytyres.co.uk)
I paid £65 for my 33x12.50x15 Bridgestone Duellers. They're not the quickest delivery but they sure are cheap!
I think they are based in Germany but we won't hold that against them. Or will we???
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Nope, not gonna hold that against them,.......they sure are cheep.
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Don't forget,
start messing with larger tyres will fuck the gearing up :wink:
shock bushes
brake caliper rubber bushes
or the rear diff is fucked
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Nope, not gonna hold that against them,.......they sure are cheep. :smt117
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Right after lots of advice from all over I think I'm beggining to get there.
Tyres are looking like procomp x-terrains, to get 31 or close as possible I'll need to drop the rim size down to 15inches, buit I've had lots of people saying these are great on and offroad, any users?
Have to say after reading through a LOT of the nagca forums it's put me off the procomp lift quite a bit, I'm not sure if they just throw their jeeps around a lot more but I don't think I found one good word on there for performance and reliabilty and not wanting to spend much time tinkering due to lack of time and knowledge I'm looking elsewhere atm.
I spoke to a nice chap today who suggested 2 inch BB with rubicon express flex control arms and edelbrock shocks, I've heard a lot of very good things about these shocks so like the idea.
Only thing that put me off a little was the £850 for the 4 control arms, £220 for the BB and £120 for disconects. This struck me a little much as looking in the US the whole 3.5inch flex lift from rubicon is $850 and for £1300 I would want a bit more than the 2' BB with stock springs.
SO, I'm going to get a quote for the complete superflex and super ride kits and see what they.
Has anyone used the rubicon lifts at all??
While getting this done I'm probably going to put a snorkel on as going through anything deeper than a foot always makes me nervous, any pointers for easy to fit and good quality ones? Ia ssume this is an easy DIY job?
I'm currently looking at offroad mdg to do the work but stumbled across surrey offroad earlier while browsing, has anyone had any experience with these guys as they a sure a lot closer :)
Thanks for all the help and sorry about another load of Q's :)
............Rikk
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Try 4WD Hardware for the lift. or Quadratec. They're both in the suppliers section. You'll get the stuff much cheaper if you buy direct from the states.
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You're obviously M25 ish
SOR have built Jeeps for Jeep Uk but plenty will say MDG
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Both, Mark @ MDG & Chris @ SOR are very good
My ZJ has the procomp suspension, the front is ok, but the back is way to soft, need to try some stiffer shocks.
but when they advise you heed their advice, otherwise reliability will become an issue.
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Rikk. If you're the Rikk I think you are, FTE is the nearest specialist to you by far. He's just up the A12 from you in Wickford. He deals mainly in Rubicon Express stuff. I saw him build an awesome ZJ with RE Longarm kit a little while ago, but he will obviously do smaller stuff as well. Steve is at SEMA in Vegas this week but give him a call in a couple of weeks and have a chat.
BTW, why not come to the next Essex pub meet, haven't seen you for a while.
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Daggie, cheers for that, thats the one thing I was worried about it being soft as I'd hate that with a passion.
Thanks Mike, yes I'm the same Rikk :)
Someone in Essex would be great, do you have a contact number for FTE at all please?
Keep meaning to get to the pub meet but things keep getting in the way usually involving long weekends of photography that leave me to tired on monday night. But thats all done for this season now so next one I'm def coming.
If I got the wheels and tyres now and took it very easy till I got the lift done would it rub in general use or just at extremes of suspension travel? Would be nice to get some bits sorted now and at least get used to the feel of the new wheels/tyres rathe than everything in one go.
Oh yea, when regearing is mentioned to compensate for larger tyres what is actually involved in that?
Cheers
............Rikk
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Ok, Rikk.
Steve is on 07973 198483. Although he's in the US at the moment he may still be taking calls, so give him a try.
In my opinion, up to 30" tyres you should be ok, at 31" you will definitely begin to notice a drop off in performance, so you may want to consider regearing if you go for 31s for road use with all the mileage you do. Depends on personal preference really. A spare set of 15" rims and some 31" muds for playtime (Colways at about £50 each and some XJ steels for about £50 a set should do) may be the way to go if you don't want to comprimise road handling and performance too much, just as long as you can be arsed to swap them around all the time.
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Cheers Mike, I've thought about a spare set but to be honest I'd never swap them over. No real place to store them and being disabled doing anything heavy or low down is hard so swapping each weekend would never happen.
How much would it cost to regear for the 31's? if it's not going to be anything to dramatic it would be worthwhile.
..........Rikk
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About a grand.
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regear for 31,s are ya mad???? :lol:
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yup
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Rikk does a lot of miles, and I don't think he'd be happy with the way his Jeep would drive on 31s, as the ZG 4.0 ain't exactly a ball of fire at the best of times.
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seconded, I do big miles and wont go over 30's on the xj as it really knocks the performance and mpg
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Sorry for the late reply, was shooting the last event of the season, scroll to the bottom for a couple of samples, bit of a change but I wasn't complaining :)
Hmmm, if it was a couple of hundred I'd go for it. Out of interest what do you actually replace/change when you regear?
So looks best to stick with 30's for the moment then, I think the procomps tend to come up a little small anyway, I'll check the dimensions and see.
I'll give FTE a ring Monday and have a chat, hopefully the insurance peeps will have replied by the end of the week with if they'l cover the mods or not and if so I can get moving.
...........Rikk
(http://http://www.images.golum.biz/misc/301005/_Z9R5708.jpg)
(http://http://www.images.golum.biz/misc/301005/_Z9R5709.jpg)
(http://http://www.images.golum.biz/misc/301005/_Z9R5753.jpg)
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Hubba Hubba 8)
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These 'Antiques Roadshow' presenters get younger and sexier every year.
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I was shooting the final of the UK full contact sword fighting champs and there was a corset parade and later a full contact handbag tourney so was interesting :)
Anyway back to the plot :)
The procomp 31x10.5x15 come in at 30.5 inches so in the middle somewhere, there 2 inches wider and 1.5inches longer than the tyres I have on atm so will go out and check for clearance once the rain stops to be sure.
Just waiting on Scorpion racing to get back with if they can supply modular steel wheels to match as I'd like to get both wheels and tyres supplied at the same place and they seem the only people who do both.
If I'm careful would it be ok to get these on now? ie long as I don't go bonkers offroad I assume they wont rub on anything only on full travel?
Cheers
..........Rikk
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Back to the plot like hell...How do I enter the full contact handbag scrap?
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Unfortunatly it's just for the reenactor and traders, same with the corset parade.
Actually you could get into the corset parade like............
(http://http://www.images.golum.biz/misc/301005/_Z9R5237.jpg)
Oh yea and here's the combatants in the handbag tourney if you think your ard enough 
(http://http://www.images.golum.biz/misc/301005/_Z9R5280.jpg)
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YAAAY :)
Spoke to the very nice guy Steve (think that was it I'm pants with names) at FTE. A nice breath of fresh air, seems honest, interested and knowledgable.
So just need to decide what wheels I want and the price he can get underbody protection for then it's all steam ahead :)
Only downside is loosing the GC for a week but I'd rather it was done properly and over a week than being thrown on over a couple of days.
So if the timings and verything work out well it may be done for 2nd week in Dec :)
Oh yea another little "upgrade" I now need done is hand controls, seems I'll be having my achiles tendon and all toe tendons lengthened just after and as my other leg is artificial it means I need hand controls to drive for 10-12 weeks, bet this will be the first lifted JGC they've had to put hand controls on 
.............Rikk