Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: Porkie on September 13, 2011, 12:08:12 PM
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Bought a Grand Cherokee for the sole use of using it to tow my car trailer and sadly it seems rubbish at it.
My uncle seems to think its because the rear suspension is too soft and this causes the trailer to really start wobbling around at speed.
Anyone else had this? the car has Edlebrok sports suspension which I thought would be harder and help if anything?
Any suggestions pls guys? am total Jeep virgin. Have I bought the wrong tool for the job?
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You have lowered sport suspension on it :icon_eek:
What were you towing? What was the noseweight?
Mine has happily towed another jeep on an 18ft trailer with an all up weight of almost 5 tonnes with no issues at all.
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indeed what are you towing.
I had a Burstner Caravan - big bugger but not heavy and it was all over the place, changed caravan to a 24foot swift which was heavier and tows rock steady.
If you towing a car trailer, was the car loaded right, if a caravan was it weighted. Nose weight on my 2002 Grand is 140kg.
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Remember my Scotland trip?
2.5 tons of boat + 800 kilos of trailer, or thereabouts.
Kernow to Oban. Ok you have to be sensible about your speed but the Grand didn't miss a beat.
[attachment=1]
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Tow hitch height?
Nose weight correct?
Cheapo nasty tyres on car or trailer?
Any defect on ya steering/suspension/drivetrain/brakes will make itself known when you got something heavy on tow :icon_eek:
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Got a 96 4.0 litre GC and use it to tow 'The 1 ton' and a 3 axle trailer
900+ kilos of trailer and the Jeep must be over 2.25 ton by now
So must be up near max of 3500
Was running at 50- 60 on way home from Cheapfest................
Got to load it right otherwise it shakes yer arse................ need to load trailer so rear of GC just starts to compress.............
And this surprised me :icon_biggrin: Put £100 of fuel in it to get to CF and have run at 16-17mpg over that tankful....more than I got out of the YJ on 35s.............over the same journey :jpshakehead: :icon_twisted: :icon_super:
Downside is very slow away from the lights and any slope hill on motorway and your looking at 40................... started holding it in 2nd on the long hills for about 500yards to keep it from changing up and down.
Nothing that a Dodge Ram Cummins wont sort..................that and a lottery win :ace:
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:iagree:
it's all down to nose weight, I had to cut the front panel out on my ex farm trailer to get the CJ7 6" further forward just to get the ride right, when it is right you will be surprised 17+mpg average with 26 on cruise control at 55 and steady as a rock
may not be pretty but works a dream and must come in at well over 2200lb
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/gallery/1234_12_09_11_11_01_14_10.jpeg)
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unless you got a v8 in all honesty I have always found that when towing with an auto its usually better to drop a gear manually on long hills to get the torque band in the right place otherwise the engine tries to slog up the hill in the overdrive gear and then when it finds it can't do it , you have to drop 2 gears just to hold a lot lower speed than if you planned your ascent.
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Rightly or may be wrongly I have been switching Overdrive off.............mainly cos I am cruising at about an indicated 53 (48 on SatNav) and this is where O/D switches in and then out an in and out......................
Don't know much about autos but seem to remember a JP comment about gearboxes getting fried if use of OD and too much heat hills etc.......... seems to be logical but then as I said not fully versed on slushboxery :icon_twisted:
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so Porkie, seems you have the right tool for the job
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One thing to add is to check the bushes on the rear A arm & control arms. Any slack in them will be magnified with a trailer on the back.
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One thing to add is to check the bushes on the rear A arm & control arms. Any slack in them will be magnified with a trailer on the back.
Yep. Someone else suggested this as well. Thanks. Hope this is the problem.
To answer the questions. Its got Edelbrock Sports suspension.
Its not towing anything heavy. Tows either of my cars here or my clio cup. All cars are 1000kg or well under. Trailer is brand new so all tyres are same brand and new and what Brian James fitted at factory
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2F0603%2FPorkie%2Fb9fc859e.jpg&hash=7fb0156861d2dfb503a3cb6e1875d2ee5803f70f)
I think the heights are ok? only have this pic of it towing
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2F0603%2FPorkie%2F65576fa4.jpg&hash=f01e07a4e2979a9e1ec369e2ff2e4c510148119f)
I agree about the nose weight point. As The Ranger truck that I used to use towed the Seven fine but the Lotus which has the engine futher back was a little more unstable. The trailer now must have alot of nose weight as it now has a tyre rack at front with six wheels and tyres on it. The Jeep just tows very badly. Wouldnt even want to try towing the Lotus before I get it sorted.
Thanks again for taking time to reply guys.
Oh and the engine light came on when my mate stuck regular petrol in it and it was hesitating. lights gone off and seems ok now with Vpower. Does the V8 need super?? didnt think it would?
Apologies for being total Jeep newbie.
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Rightly or may be wrongly I have been switching Overdrive off.............mainly cos I am cruising at about an indicated 53 (48 on SatNav) and this is where O/D switches in and then out an in and out......................
Don't know much about autos but seem to remember a JP comment about gearboxes getting fried if use of OD and too much heat hills etc.......... seems to be logical but then as I said not fully versed on slushboxery :icon_twisted:
It says it the handbook you should do this for hills and stuff. You are doing the right thing I think.
I felt like a right gay actually reading the instructions to something by the way!!!
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Arhhhhh........ I see. the Lotus needs to be towed arse first cos of weight distribution.......... I know its counter intuitive.
my mate has to tow his 911 like this........ slightly more arse heavy than your Lotus but you get the picture :icon_super:
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Arhhhhh........ I see. the Lotus needs to be towed arse first cos of weight distribution.......... I know its counter intuitive.
my mate has to tow his 911 like this........ slightly more arse heavy than your Lotus but you get the picture :icon_super:
Tried that with the Ranger and it was better. Not tried Lotus with Jeep yet as its such a problem with the Seven. Thats VERY nose heavy. has a big 500bhp Iron block turbocharged Cosworth engine in the front!
will get the bushes looked at and hope that sorts it. Would like to keep the Jeep. She is lovely friendly old girl!
need to also fix the Aircon and the Cruise though!
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mnnnnn :icon_twisted: Horsepower.........we love that here........better than the top shelf at WH Smiths :icon_super:
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Good stuff! I am in the right place then :)
Although most people do think a car that weighs 695kg doesn't really need 500bhp and 440 lbft torque!
I think its merely 'adequate' ;)
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2F0603%2FPorkie%2FWestfield%2F85011000.jpg&hash=4a880b61edff555ffb8049da04f249cab1c1bf21)
it does big skids :)
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2F0603%2FPorkie%2FWestfield%2F16a38565.jpg&hash=d9c43e7375e356dabe54be0fb4daa8dca3f560b1)
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2F0603%2FPorkie%2FWestfield%2F45123741.jpg&hash=158133b64428738cd808b0ccbb5c3560d786e6ea)
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Awesome :icon_super: :icon_super: :icon_super: that must be more than 1,000 bhp per ton........so more powerful than a Veyron :icon_super: :icon_super: :icon_super: :icon_super: :ace:
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Maths is not your strong point huh ;)
its not over 1000bhp per tonne mate :) but it is more than the Big Bug.
The Veyron is incredible piece of engineering though. More a plane/boat than a car!
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Maths is not your strong point huh
:hysterical: classic !!!!....you cant make this shit up......Porky you'll fit right in.
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Ah yes Maths.......... :jpshakehead: I was away that day :icon_twisted:
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got to agree it is all down to nose weight i tow a 900kg trailer with a 2460kg cherry picker on the back with a 2003 2.7 wj and if it is on the trailer only slightly too far forward anything more than 50 mph is real brown trousers time. but in the right place on the trailer it is steady as a rock all the way upto 65mph.
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Although most people do think a car that weighs 695kg doesn't really need 500bhp and 440 lbft torque!
You're joking, right? Sounds stoooopidly underpowered to me :003: :steeringwheel:
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looking at the pic of you towing its actually towing the trailer nose down so either the tow ball height needs altering or you need more weight to the rear of the trailer so it sits level
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Bought a Grand Cherokee for the sole use of using it to tow my car trailer and sadly it seems rubbish at it.
My uncle seems to think its because the rear suspension is too soft and this causes the trailer to really start wobbling around at speed.
Anyone else had this? the car has Edlebrok sports suspension which I thought would be harder and help if anything?
Any suggestions pls guys? am total Jeep virgin. Have I bought the wrong tool for the job?
its all about tow-bar hight and load the trailer with more weight to the front . I pull a 3 axle ifor but had to make a plate for the tow bar to get the ball higher . I pull big weights with no trouble . (https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi824.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz163%2Fborderman%2FIMAG1605.jpg&hash=e79d46e0a79633576b72c6ac8925b64266776ce9)
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looks a nice view out the back :greggmo:
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ROFPML :hysterical:
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also a thing to remember is you load the trailer evenly then don't realise you throw a whole load of extra crap in the rear of the cherry then you all jump into it as well and all your initial good work can go out the window!
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or out of the trailer.......
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[attachment=1]
looks a nice view out the back :greggmo:
[/quote ]possably but this is a better load
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Oh god this site is becoming Classic tractors...
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that'd be nasty if the hydrolics lost pressure :icon_eek:
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I pull big weights with no trouble .
In that case, I should introduce you to my sister....
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I pull big weights with no trouble .
In that case, I should introduce you to my sister....
:hysterical: :hysterical:
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Does the V8 need super?? didnt think it would?
No normal petrol is ok; I think the 'super only' comment on the fuel gauge refers to US petrol grades where std unleaded is a lower grade than ours.
Nice toys!
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One thing to add is to check the bushes on the rear A arm & control arms. Any slack in them will be magnified with a trailer on the back.
Sorry to drag this back up guys!
Still havent got around to sorting problem but my uncle says if I get the parts I need he will fit them.
I realise I am being a total IDIOT here.... and I sadly am!!
But what are the exact parts/bushes etc that I need to buy pls?
Is there a kit? where is best to buy them
THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP :)
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Plenty of different ones on Ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=grand+cherokee+rear+bushes (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=grand+cherokee+rear+bushes)
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I know. Thats the problem.
I dont know exactly what I need.
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2 of these for the upper A arm http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAND-CHEROKEE-WJ-99-04-REAR-FRAME-BUSH-/300582916788?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item45fc2352b4 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAND-CHEROKEE-WJ-99-04-REAR-FRAME-BUSH-/300582916788?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item45fc2352b4)
& maybe 4 of these for the lower arms http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAND-CHEROKEE-99-04-REAR-LOWER-CONTROL-ARM-REAR-BUSH-/330442373024?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4cefe677a0 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAND-CHEROKEE-99-04-REAR-LOWER-CONTROL-ARM-REAR-BUSH-/330442373024?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4cefe677a0)
BTW, I have used this seller & they are good
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PERFECT!!!
Ordering now. Thanks again.
Horrible job for him? or pretty easy?
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let us all know porkie if this sorted out your problem
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let us all know porkie if this sorted out your problem
DEFINATE improvement!
Towed all the way to Nurburgring with it last monday.
Still not what I would call stable though... and if you go above 60mph on the clock (a GPS 55mph) then it gets a wobble on again.
Big trucks overtaking you can also upset it!
BUT it IS better no doubt.... however still wanna make it even better as have grown VERY fond of it and would like to keep it as long term tow car.
Someone said wheel bearings might be shot? and axle needs replacing?!!? sounds rubbish to me!
Another person suggested 'Up country springs' ? where can I get these? and do you guys think that would help?
Thinking of fitting the Addco rear sway bar. Is that gonna help or hinder?
THANKS again for all help and input! GREAT site
P.S Some people showed interest in one of my toys earlier in the thread that I tow with it.... here is a video. Its pretty nuts! 800bhp per tonne!
http://youtu.be/kvZtFUJHFV0 (http://youtu.be/kvZtFUJHFV0)
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My Grand runs Up Country shocks as standard.
Although I don't do it very often it will tow my caravan (2ton) up and and past 70mph with ease.
Make sure your nose weight is perfect, I had an older caravan and once when the nose weight was to heavy but quite a lot it was all over the place.
Would not go above 50mph without snaking in a dangerous fashion.
Think the Jeep Nose weight is max of 140Kg, I tend to keep mine at a max of 100kg and its perfect.
Maybe worth a set of house hold scales and a piece of wood at the tow ball height and see what you trailer is loading on the jeep.
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My Grand runs Up Country shocks as standard.
Although I don't do it very often it will tow my caravan (2ton) up and and past 70mph with ease.
Make sure your nose weight is perfect, I had an older caravan and once when the nose weight was to heavy but quite a lot it was all over the place.
Would not go above 50mph without snaking in a dangerous fashion.
Think the Jeep Nose weight is max of 140Kg, I tend to keep mine at a max of 100kg and its perfect.
Maybe work set of house hold scales and a piece of wood at the tow ball height and see what you trailer is loading on the jeep.
This sounds like a great idea. Sounds like the nose weight could be the issue?
Its a brand new Brian James trailer.... would have thought it would have been ok? maybe I am wrong to assume
for the VERY stupid and inexperienced (me!) how do you alter nose weight?!?!? load car futher back?
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Exactly that, the car could be to far forward on the trailer.
Seriously when I got it wrong (I tow alot) it was dam scary to the point where I was going to sell the Jeep as it wasnt up to the job.
I had far to much stuff in the front of the caravan, loaded some things further back by the axle (to far back to you get a see-saw effect) and it was perfect.
Only changed the caravan for a much newer one as we could afford to.
you can buy nose weight gauges but the most accurate is as I said, bathroom scales and wood cut to size to match the height of ur ball.
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Thanks, found some cheap nose weight scales on ebay!
What do you think about changing to 'up country' springs or these bigger sway bars?
might just try some new standard springs? or Eibach ones? Mine are over 100,000 miles old now!
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Got to be worth a try with corrected nose weight first, then from there new shocks.
The jeep should tow perfectly as standard.
My shocks have done 92k now and seem perfect still.
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adaco rear arb, just happen to have a few I imported :icon_winkle: that and a new a arm ball joint in the rear
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adaco rear arb, just happen to have a few I imported :icon_winkle: that and a new a arm ball joint in the rear
Any for sale? You think they would help with Towing? from reading they really help in general driving!
Jay, the shocks are pretty new on the car by the looks of things. Well they look new and are all shiny and red and have 'Edelbrock' written on them.
Its spring I am thinking of replacing....
I reckon you have nailed it with nose weight though. Thanks
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It's all down to nose weight. In the good old days when I was still diving we had two dive boats one of which was a dream to tow the other was an absolute bitch because it was too heavy on the nose. We used to have to load the back of the boat up with dive belts to balance it up. Used to get real proper tank slappers if you got it wrong no matter what vehicle was pulling it
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It's all down to nose weight. In the good old days when I was still diving we had two dive boats one of which was a dream to tow the other was an absolute bitch because it was too heavy on the nose. We used to have to load the back of the boat up with dive belts to balance it up. Used to get real proper tank slappers if you got it wrong no matter what vehicle was pulling it
My Ford Ranger would tow same car and same trailer loaded the same way at 70mph+.... so whilst I agree, I do think the cars mechanical condition was/is affecting things as well.... AND it is FAR better now with rear bushes all changed
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I now also think the Towbar height maybe the proble? maybe too low? Is this wrong? is it a genuine towbar?
If not... where to buy one? what best for these cars. Thanks guys. You have all been super helpful!
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2F0603%2FPorkie%2Fa3d329cf.jpg&hash=21602bf8bef667ed22d00cadfb614ad56aa10ee4)
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ball height is dependant on the trailer hitch height, especially with a multi axle trailer
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Thanks again guys, Gonna replace the rear springs as they are old and look very beaten up...
Where could I buy the 'upcountry' springs? Tried a main dealer with no luck.
or are there any fother springs that I should look at or should I just replace with new std ones from Jeep? or any cheaper ebay ones people have used successfully?
sorry for being a bore/pest!
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Going back to your ford ranger, you may find that the nose weight on this was alot more,
like I said our old caravan way way to heavy on the nose for the Jeep and hence I had towing issues. On our Rodeo pick up it was never a problem and I know it was even heavier on the nose.
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Have some OME HD springs, but will give you a lift.
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Have some OME HD springs, but will give you a lift.
Yes. Dont want a lift thanks. Any other spring makes you can suggest pls?
You mentioned you had a Addco rear sway bar. Can I buy one from you pls?
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No problem, will work out how much they are & PM you.
You will struggle to get upreted springs without a lift. Standard OME springs will give around 20mm of lift, HD a little more but have a higher rating. Up Country springs give about a 30mm lift.
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Hey dude, save you the trouble as I saw where you were based!
I bought one off ebay for 219$ delivered.
Interested in some springs though if you can supply or point me in right direction?
once again. MASSIVE thanks for your patience and help! let me buy some springs off you and will stick some beer money in as well! (if you think springs are a good idea that is?) surely they are... must be saggy and shagged after 110k miles?