Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: bellysgonnagetchya on January 01, 2012, 06:37:21 PM
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Hiya Guys,
After the fire with the XJ (Some of you will remember the horror story!) I decided to buy another Jeep to take my mind off things and seem to have ended up with a nicely modded 2003 TR2 TJ, It has a few decent mods already with 3.5" RE SuperFlex kit, Warn winch, SYE, ARB Lockers Front & Rear, On Board Air, Snorkle, Sliders, D44 Rear axle, Diff gaurds, 33" BFG Muds, etc.
After getting home today from a dirty day of playing at Piccadilly Woods (Pay & Play site in West Sussex) I have decided that the old girl may need a bit more ground clearance! I am booked in for the Exmoor Challenge in March with some friends so would be looking to purchase some 33" Extreme Mud Tyres anyway but im now thinking of the posibility of a set of 35's with some spring spacers and longer shocks or a Rough Country 6" Long arm kit.
I know that if I lift the TJ with spacers, the short arms will give a harsh ride but will be the cheapest option, or I could splash the cash (Money allowing!!) and get the long arm kit which will make for a nice ride again and offer more flex!
Has anyone had any experiance with Long Arm Kits on Wranglers, especially TJ's? Looking for some personal opinions really!
Cheers for the help fellas.....Chris
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is this mocaj's old one?
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is this mocaj's old one?
Not as far as im aware bud.
It was owned by the guy who ownes True Grip Offroad near Canterbury. He bought it then sent it to FTE for all the mods ready to use on an event in Switzerland I believe, he then sheared the rear prop off somehow on a round a bout over here then it didnt really move for 3 years!
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are ok lol , well whatever you do don't go short arm, had one been there didn't like it.
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Its not my old one, same colour and year tho
someone will be along with first hand experience of long arms, there are a few who have them on here
don't forget your gearing will need looking at for 35's, that is if its not done already :icon_winkle:
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Sorry! Forgot to add that it has already been regeared to 4.56 axles and the speedo has been calibrated for 35's
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most of the spend already done then
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Pretty much! Would still like a hard top for it and a few other bits but I don't have bottomless pockets so it's gotta be done when when I got the dosh!
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sorry to hijack, but whats the event on exmoor? At some point I intend to get my TJ to picadilly woods.
mmm Long arm, yes I'd like some of those too!
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re panics comment whilst valid as an opinion i think its fair to say tank the destroyers view would be of more use to you as he and panic had the same jeep and tank pushed it much harder
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yes he did..... he broke it lol
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sorry to hijack, but whats the event on exmoor? At some point I intend to get my TJ to picadilly woods.
see the thread on TKORC from today? looks like mud heaven
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I have owned two TJ's with long arm - first was 4" RE and the second is 5.5" Clayton - both have advantages/disadvantage I believe you can only get the RE through AEV now Clayton is still in business in NJ.
Do you need hard core long arm?
For 35's you need 4.88 R&P.
Oh and I also have spaned the green TJ as above.
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Thats a bit unfair,I didnt break it,the mud in the clutch broke it...... :lol_hitting: :lol_hitting: :lol_hitting: Re the truck,i had no problems as such with the short arm.Was a little twitchy on road though with no rear anti roll bar but after owning a CJ7 with a 6.6 litre engine,i am used to a twitchy jeep.Only thing i found was that as it had no re-gear it struggled a little on the 33s gear wise but as yours is re geared its not a problem
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as kev said you are known as tank the destroyer....... wonder how you got that name? lol :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:
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Its a misnomer thats for sure
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sorry to hijack, but whats the event on exmoor?
This is the event we are doing on Exmoor http://www.4x4onexmoor.co.uk/ (http://www.4x4onexmoor.co.uk/)
Piccadilly Woods was a mire! SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO muddy and slippy even the track out of the site were hard, some had to winch almost out of the site! LOL
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I now own the green tj mentioned above and have lowered it to a 2" lift with 35's and 4.56 r'n'p and its very very capable, I have already abused the hell out of it and its alot of fun. The short arm is only any good when kept low, once you go high they just dont work. I have ditched the tre's on the panhards in favour of rose joints and have gained clearance with a fairly flat skid. It drives soooo muuuch better on the road to. It is better now with 35" crossplys than it was with 33" radials before. Tank no wonder it was twitchy there was an abundence of loose bolts and knackered bushes through out the suspension.
I wanted long arm after experiencing short arm tjs in the past but Im glad I tried this first. I dont know if you saw my thread on the tj but It flexes very well. The nice thing is that due to making room for upwards travel, its flex I already had. The low centre of gravity and near factory angles mean you can use the power alot more effectively.
Danny
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For 35's you need 4.88 R&P.
IoM is correct....
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I use secong gear the majority of the time with my 35's. 3rd is there is you want to climb and first is very low if you wanna crawl. Although 4.88's would make 3rd a little less mental I think 4.56's are more than upto the job for 35's. In my opinion.
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trust me, over time IF you are on 35's that measure 35", then you will find like me that 2nd is great for most stuff, then you run out of revs in 3rd, and when winch assisting and slow nadgery stuff, 1st is not low enough......then again if i had one of those klune underdrive things, that would help, but then if i had that much fluff I'd have a whole host of other gucci stuff too! :003:
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Surely 4.88 makes you run out of revs in 3rd quicker?
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Having had both.............. 33s and 35s with 4.56 ratios............. I have to agree........ with all above.
33s off road with 4.56 is just great thro the 231 standard ratio....... on road is good down to 30 in 5th and good pull to 70 and above...trips up A1 to Tong got me 18mpg.
35s in the same rig and below 52(on satnav) and vibration cos engine under load so need to change down.... extra weight and rotational gyro meant acceleration a LOT slower and breathless at 70. Consumption down to 14mpg.
I would say go as deep as the axle ratio availability allows... sadly dana 30 4.88 is lowest
If you got 44s then 5.13 is there for you.......
THEN larger tyres and..................oh a whole world of choice and fluff pain :hysterical: :icon_twisted: :icon_super:
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Surely 4.88 makes you run out of revs in 3rd quicker?
I possibly phrased it wrong, what I mean is there is not enough torque in 3rd and as such you will end up stalling
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On the silver wrangler (the mafia) I have 5.13 and 37" tyres with 3.8 ATLAS and it's too deep!!!
33" is 4.56
35" is 4.88
It just works - but hey we all have opinions!!
The Buggy has 44" tyres but that's another tread.
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Do you think it would be worth the expensive seeing as he has already got 4.56?
I wish I had known that before buying the 4.56's. I am happy as it is but seems I would have been happier with 4.88's. I have been on two big trips in 4.56/33" tyre motors and always thought they run out of steem. Thats why I choose as I did.
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The bigger you go the more the compromise........
I found standard transfercase ratio 2.6 whatever to be great in the mud and on trails and thro water.....
but useles in the rocks banging around and clutch slip and stuff needed.....
And as IOM said a 4 to 1 ratio that's in the Klune is too low and causes spin and digging in in the mud.... but is better on rocks cos of more control.....
Stickin them together and having 11.6 to 1 is mental in the rocks and allows hand throttle and finessing with the brake pedal to allow amazing control........ but is useless elsewhere........
So..you need all three....... but then other issues raise there ugly heads :icon_twisted:
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For general toodling about and the odd pay and play day, no I don't think it's worth changing to 4.88, since you are looking at £500 per axle plus labour if you do it properly including changing all the bearings and oil seals.
Interestingly my TJ was originally geared with 4.56's for 34's, with a set of 33" mt's for summer froading and road use, I have put 35's on it and hoped it would be ok. Like I've said before, in my application 4.88 would be ideal, plus I would then have option of running 37's, but then I really would need certainly a pair of bigger axles to suit.
Then again, I've been in timed sections flat out in 5th low, and could really use another gear or lower ( numbered) diff ratio's. It's all horses for courses really :-)
Another timed section I did was in thick bog, I started in 2nd and changed into 3rd, but then started to run out of power so tried to shift back into 2nd and stopped, and then had to winch myself out. In hind sight I should have kept it rolling slower in 2nd BUT kept moving, and driven out. It's all about learning how best and most efficiently to drive the set up you have......... Anyhow, wasn't this thread about long arm?
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Its all good info for me willo!
I know the TJ will be a little breathless on long runs on the road but with 35" Silverstone extremes the ride will be crap anyway! LOL
I will be keeping my BFG 33 10.50.15 muds for most of the day to day use but fancied a set of extremes for pay and play days etc.
The long arm idea has now been ditched as the funds just wont allow Sooper Dooper Suspension AND Wheels/Tyres. So I have decided to keep the RE short arm 3.5" superflex kit but also give it a 1.25" Body Lift, 1" engine lift, Rough Country 'Tummy Tuck' raised skid plate, Pin Bar eliminators, bump stop extensions, and a few other small bits and bobs!
Once the Body lift has been fitted I will look at how to raise the Fuel Tank up an inch to gain a bit more clearance at the rear.
If anyone has any more sugestions on how to get a bit more clearance or opinions on ratios/long arms etc please post em up as I wanna learn as much as poss so I can make educated decissions in the future rather than just guessing! LOL.
Cheers Guys......
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have you looked at this, (http://www.birtydastards.com/frm/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=14) only a rough guide but might help
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I have a one inch body lift and managed to raise my fuel tank close two inches. I cut the upper lips of the front and back of the metal (weak) skid plate and welded them lower down raising the tank up to the bottom of the body tub. It was a free fix that has saved me a lot of time since I havn't had to pull the tank and bash the dents out in a some time now.
The jeep has had a hole bag of suspension bits over the years under it and over time I built my own long arm kit. I already had good springs and shocks I didnt need to be replaced so no need to spend money on new ones.
Gearing wise I am not set up for playing in the UK mud like I was doing this weekend but it sure sounds good flat out in fifth gear. The jeep has 36" tires, 5.13 gears and a 4-1 kit in the tcase. Pushing it all is a 4.7 stroker with a home modified exhaust to get around the four link rear suspension. The best thing is it sounds completly different then any of the V8 or diesel rovers around Norfolk.
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i have 4.88
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Yeah I agree that It definately makes a massive difference when you consider your intended use.
Silverstones are tiny by the way alot smaller than 35" not even measurng 34 infact.
If i had any faith in the front axle I would love some low gearing and head for the rocks but the extra torque you can apply when doing this is just not dana 30 freindly. As somebody who trials alot I like to drive things in one fluid motion and the 2nd gear Im left with at the moment is near perfect for that. If it was any lower I would fail on alot of the climbs. It is nicely geared for a good punch of the throttle at the bottom meaning I can let the momentum of the car ease the stress to the driveline.
But in future when I use the vehicle for winch style events Im sure Ill miss a nice low 1st to inch about with.
What are you prefered off road situations?
Danny
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I don't do MUD or deep WATER!!!
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/gallery/medium_1524_10_09_10_5_25_24_67.jpeg)
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Now that is a :icon_super: pic
No vids of how it ended up like that is there?
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Thats a class pic! Bet its a beast in action :icon_super:
Cheers for that chart Nosebolt, looks like 35s with 4.56 diffs is just about right.
I have been checking out what you say big_patrol and yes those Silverstone Extremes seem to be comming up very small! I measured the BFG mt's fitted and they are an exact 33" so I dont see any point spending a whole bundle on a set of tyres that are meant to be 2" taller but in reality are only 0.5" bigger, maybe il look into a set of Insa Turbo - Special Tracks in 285/75/16 they have been reported to come out approx 34"
Idealy I would like a set of Simex Jungle Trekker 2's in 34 10.50 15. But as any Simex's for sale are rarer than hens teeth these days or stoooooopid money im not being left many options. I have 1 lead that I will try and follow up tomorrow for a set of Fedima Trekkers in a 35 10.50 16 fitment so fingers crossed!
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I can highly reccomend the creepy crawleys in a 35. They are not just as aggressive as the simex. But I have used them for a good few years on lots of different cars now. As a tyre to use on all surfaces I have found them hard to beat. In quarry conditions they are fantastic. Due to the wranglers having decent pwer/weight they can clear them well in the mud too.
The measure a little over 34 1/2.
Danny
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I don't do MUD or deep WATER!!!
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/gallery/medium_1524_10_09_10_5_25_24_67.jpeg)
35's are sooo yesterday... :003:
44's or bigger is the the way to go, otherwise you'll be winching like the guys on 31's and 33's
Where's does it all end... :icon_winkle:
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I think it ends with 20" mog wheels and agricultural monsters at 47-54" ooohhh yes please nurse :ace:
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It never ends thats the trouble. 44's would be lovely but im not sure they would drive to work very well. Plus I would cry everytime I saw any ware.
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I think it ends with 20" mog wheels and agricultural monsters at 47 ooohhh yes please nurse :ace:
I have the 47" tyres here and in the very near future will be looking for some Mach5 20" double beadlocks - soon as the 75 stops licking me sacks every week!!!
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I looked..and Stazworks do a 20" double with insert etc (like the buggy??)
I stopped looking when I clocked the $$$$.. nice but with import gonna be £600 per rim easy :jpshakehead:
Need an outfit that can redo the PCI of a Mog to 8 on 6.5.... for less fluff.
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I have some 35x12.5x16 Creepy Crawlers only slightly used that could go for the right price if you're interested?
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never in 15's :011:
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I have some 35x12.5x16 Creepy Crawlers only slightly used that could go for the right price if you're interested?
PM Sent!