Birty Dastards Jeep Club

Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: IrishCJ6 on April 09, 2012, 10:26:49 AM

Title: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: IrishCJ6 on April 09, 2012, 10:26:49 AM
Has anyone ever thought of doing this conversion for a CJ with a 5x5.5 pattern using discs and calipers from a Suzuki Vitara? Obviously you would have to make up a custom caliper bracket (not too difficult) but is there anything else anyone could see that would or would not work. I thought of 2 options

1. Use front discs and calipers and run a hydro handbrake (do not need MOT) - easily sourced and parts are cheap
2. Use rear discs/claipers (slightly harder to find, later models only) and adapt the existing cables to suit handbrake.

I'm not rushing into anything but was just thinking about doing something like this, there are probably other options but scrap yards here in Ireland a few and far between and not very good (i.e. no US vehicles)

Comments welcomed
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Cockney Boy on April 09, 2012, 10:32:06 AM
A few other members have said to use VW caliper and I believe Warthog has the templates for caliper  brackets
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 09, 2012, 10:58:23 AM
Lornaben has done it I believe as I recall a discussion bout ramifications of a home made kit if the worst thing happened and ya ploughed into some one and snuffed them out - he had his checked over by vosa or summink like that

woud be a handy option coz the ssbc is just stupid money
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Cockney Boy on April 09, 2012, 11:02:38 AM
how is it stupid money if a genuine properly tested kit makes you stop and potentially saves lives? You do pay for what you get and £800 is a very cheap option in my eyes.

Lornaben has done it I believe as I recall a discussion bout ramifications of a home made kit if the worst thing happened and ya ploughed into some one and snuffed them out - he had his checked over by vosa or summink like that

woud be a handy option coz the ssbc is just stupid money
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 09, 2012, 11:13:09 AM
derrrrr coz £400 for instance woud be a lot less stupid  :hysterical:

Im in the camp that says proper kit is the only option, but £800 plus shippin etc is a lot of cash for most (especially those that have more than one truck that needs doing :003: )
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Cockney Boy on April 09, 2012, 11:23:41 AM
Then sell a kidney or a few children, simples :)
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: IrishCJ6 on April 09, 2012, 11:26:24 AM
Or this for $550 + p & p

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300678643095?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300678643095?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: dieselj20 on April 09, 2012, 11:33:48 AM
done several Suzuki 413 disc ford Granada caliper hand brake holds ok
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: chrisjones on April 09, 2012, 12:27:41 PM
There's a guy on the Mindy forum who sells adapter plates for doing just such a conversion.

Dogface has one fitted as does Alan's truck and both of Kev's.
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Dave The Sparky on April 09, 2012, 12:58:38 PM
I have Suzuki discs and Passat calipers on mine. Handbrake is not brilliant but as you have found out neither is the standard one when you introduce mud :003:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: IrishCJ6 on April 09, 2012, 01:03:50 PM
Interesting. was hoping it would have been better hold than the drums. oh well looks like it will be a hydro assist setup then.
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 09, 2012, 01:23:44 PM
Or this for $550 + p & p

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300678643095?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300678643095?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)

cracking find  :greggmo:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 09, 2012, 01:34:20 PM
Dear techeads - does that ebay link irish found also match up with FSJ dana 44?
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Dave69 on April 09, 2012, 04:07:13 PM
homemade brake conversions are fine as long as you do some research first. the calipers are normally from an existing vehicle which will have been tested for performance so should be no issue with an inspection. brake lines are a std build, all you have to check is the brake booster and bias valve has enough umph to enable a good operation of the two rear calipers. an easy option is to use a manually adjusted bias valve. the only potential stumbling point is the mounting plate which should be sourced from a reputable place and of substantial thickness to guarantee strength.

if you want to do a bodge-it-and-run expect problems.
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: IrishCJ6 on April 09, 2012, 06:15:59 PM
What are the overall benifits of a disc conversion other than the obvious lighter, easier to repair, no adjusting. Is the handbrake any better?

My main issue with mine is with a foot opperated handbrake (appart from not working well) makes it very tricky to stop on a hill, cause you don't have enough feet to opperate all the pedals, thats why I was thinking of doing a hydro conversion (manual) so you can grab the lever whilst on the clutch and brake.

This is what I was looking into

http://www.compbrake.com/brake-kits/brake-valves/line-lock.html (http://www.compbrake.com/brake-kits/brake-valves/line-lock.html)
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: isle of man on April 09, 2012, 06:21:44 PM
Just purchased one of them - will let you know how I get on with it....
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Delk on April 09, 2012, 06:51:17 PM
For hills and tricky situations install a hand throttle. Mine is made from a bike lever and cables. They work a treat and you can keep one foot on the clutch and brakes at all times. You will soon find driving trails is smoother because you don't get the bounce in the throttle pedal. Most of the Landy crowd thought I was driving an auto the other weekend.

As for brakes I installed the Teraflex disc conversion and the handbrake is worthless! It uses the small inner drum shoes for the hand brake and these get packed with mud and wear out the shoes quickly. Plus everything is so tight I have to pull the axle shafts to change the shoes.
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: isle of man on April 09, 2012, 07:17:49 PM
I have two of these hand throttles can't recommend them highly enough  Terra  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraFlex-Hand-Throttle-Jeep-TJ-LJ-XJ-YJ-CJ-4870402-/370575340638?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item564802f45e&vxp=mtr)
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Cockney Boy on April 09, 2012, 07:27:06 PM
Mines a Shimano gear lever off a bike!!, but that raffled ones look much better
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 09, 2012, 07:33:06 PM
Dear techeads - does that ebay link irish found also match up with FSJ dana 44?


bump  :003:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Dave The Sparky on April 09, 2012, 08:28:20 PM
BD I Think FSJ have different bolt patterns and there are less bolts for some reason but im sure there will be a kit somewhere for them, you just have to find it!  :003:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 09, 2012, 08:31:46 PM
 :eusa_doh:  :icon_redface: :die:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: isle of man on April 09, 2012, 08:34:56 PM
:eusa_doh:  :icon_redface: :die:

Indeed time to think....
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 09, 2012, 08:42:31 PM
I have no excuse other than cheapness blinded me  :011:

Altho technically my 7 still has standard axles so I could try and bluff  :003:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: isle of man on April 09, 2012, 08:56:25 PM
I have no excuse other than cheapness blinded me  :011:

Altho technically my 7 still has standard axles so I could try and bluff  :003:

Should that no be FLUFF??
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Dave The Sparky on April 09, 2012, 09:05:04 PM
Maybe the Full size Jeeps need to stop on some proper drum brakes and remember that the bigger you go with tyres the worse those brakes are going to perform :greggmo:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 09, 2012, 09:13:34 PM
I have no excuse other than cheapness blinded me  :011:

Altho technically my 7 still has standard axles so I could try and bluff  :003:

Should that no be FLUFF??

tis always an issue  :011:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 09, 2012, 09:14:13 PM
Maybe the Full size Jeeps need to stop on some proper drum brakes and remember that the bigger you go with tyres the worse those brakes are going to perform :greggmo:

errr would not proper disc brakes be better  :017:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: willo on April 09, 2012, 09:17:43 PM
you can have the drums off this Dana 70, that'll stop anything I reckon!
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: IrishCJ6 on April 09, 2012, 09:18:18 PM
Ade,

what about this one, from the same seller

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300678642749?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300678642749?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: IrishCJ6 on April 09, 2012, 09:20:22 PM
What about the disc conversion using the mechanical linkage on the caliper rather than internal drums, I no some of the VW ones just have a lever on the side that opperates the caliper when the handbrake is applied.
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Dave The Sparky on April 09, 2012, 09:23:05 PM
All the kits ive seen and the bodge i made for mine are fine on a Cj, but i dont think they would work so well on 2+ tonnes of FSJ with 38s, but you are welcome to have my cad drawings and find a laser profiler if you wish to prove me wrong though. :003:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: IrishCJ6 on April 09, 2012, 09:25:15 PM
I'll defo have the cad drawings, I'll PM you my email
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: isle of man on April 09, 2012, 09:26:16 PM
All the kits ive seen and the bodge i made for mine are fine on a Cj, but i dont think they would work so well on 2+ tonnes of FSJ with 38s, but you are welcome to have my cad drawings and find a laser profiler if you wish to prove me wrong though. :003:

You  a cad???

A bounder maybe...
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 09, 2012, 09:30:16 PM
you can have the drums off this Dana 70, that'll stop anything I reckon!

sounds like fun Will, sling them in the pile  :greggmo:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 09, 2012, 09:31:21 PM
Ade,

what about this one, from the same seller

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300678642749?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300678642749?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)

I might be wrong but I think that still aint it - hopefully some techead will tell me Im wrong - thanks nonetheless
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 09, 2012, 09:32:46 PM
All the kits ive seen and the bodge i made for mine are fine on a Cj, but i dont think they would work so well on 2+ tonnes of FSJ with 38s, but you are welcome to have my cad drawings and find a laser profiler if you wish to prove me wrong though. :003:

and you know full well I have no idea what you are talking about  :003:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Dave The Sparky on April 09, 2012, 09:39:23 PM
Probably for the best
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 10, 2012, 10:55:46 PM
Irish good buddy  :icon_biggrin:

Can u find one for an AMC 20 please?

The Scrambler rear axle is done so wanna find a well priced conversion kit to do the brakes as they need a major overhaul
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: IrishCJ6 on April 11, 2012, 07:57:30 AM
This looks good and easy

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174851&highlight=nissan+suzuki (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174851&highlight=nissan+suzuki)
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: IrishCJ6 on April 11, 2012, 08:08:02 AM
Ade,

and the brackets already cut for you

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Disc-Brake-Conversion-Brackets-for-CJ5-CJ7-CJ8-Scrambler-AMC-Model-20-Wrangler-/290658369911?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43ac96c177&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Disc-Brake-Conversion-Brackets-for-CJ5-CJ7-CJ8-Scrambler-AMC-Model-20-Wrangler-/290658369911?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43ac96c177&vxp=mtr)

and the calipers

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NISSAN-300-ZX-TWIN-TURBO-REAR-CALIPERS-/150778998811?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item231b20f01b (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NISSAN-300-ZX-TWIN-TURBO-REAR-CALIPERS-/150778998811?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item231b20f01b)

and the discs

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-SJ-Series-1-3-SAMURAI-4WD-Front-Brake-Discs-Solid-88-93-/260916769816?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cbfd9f418 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-SJ-Series-1-3-SAMURAI-4WD-Front-Brake-Discs-Solid-88-93-/260916769816?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cbfd9f418)
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 11, 2012, 08:11:59 AM
Top work dood  :greggmo:

Also I contacted the ebay dood doin the kits - this is his website http://rp4wd.com/?page_id=31 (http://rp4wd.com/?page_id=31)

He says the amc 20 is just finishin prototype development in the workshop and should be up for sale within a month. He already does quite a few Jeep conversion kits
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: IrishCJ6 on April 11, 2012, 08:13:50 AM
Thats cool but that kit/parts looks really good, shame it won't fit a 44
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 11, 2012, 08:15:27 AM
will be keeping an eye on his website to see when the FSJ d44 kit comes out - I have asked the question a few mins ago
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Lornaben on April 11, 2012, 02:31:06 PM
Lornaben has done it I believe as I recall a discussion bout ramifications of a home made kit if the worst thing happened and ya ploughed into some one and snuffed them out - he had his checked over by vosa or summink like that

woud be a handy option coz the ssbc is just stupid money

The original design using rover calipers was certified by an engineer if I remember right (lost in the mists of time, ask Andy Hunt, he did it) I had that type fitted for a while but didn't like the fact the pads overlapped the disc ....
I redesigned the mounting plates so we could fit Zook calipers. These fit the disc properly as thats what they were made for. This is the kit a friendly SVA man (a mate) looked at and then the MOT man (not a mate  :011:)  tested it and passed the conversion as 'safe' for use.

There's a guy on the Mindy forum who sells adapter plates for doing just such a conversion.

Dogface has one fitted as does Alan's truck and both of Kev's.

This Kit was designed for the Mindy 44 axles ie designed to replace the existing drum arrangement. I dont know whether this would transfer over to the other variations of the 44.
If you are looking to take the handbrake with it then its no good for you. Mindy's are mostly transmission brake so the disc conversion on the rear didn't change anything. There was a guy who converted his rear axle to disc using calipers from a rover 800 which has the handbrake function built in. Don't know anything about the kit he used other than it was a home brew jobby.
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: dieselj20 on April 11, 2012, 02:37:17 PM
Mindy is early 44 fsj and 72 to 75 cj 44 have are different bolt patterns and bearings
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 11, 2012, 09:02:52 PM
dood is doin 6 both d44 kits within the next 6 weeks  :icon_super:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 21, 2012, 10:41:50 AM
dunno if u got the latest JP mag but they done a walkthru for bitsa rear disc conversion on d30 and d44
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: IrishCJ6 on April 21, 2012, 10:51:42 AM
Haven't got mine yet but will say it will turn up later next week, only prob is we don't have access to the US parts like they have
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: willo on April 21, 2012, 11:07:27 AM
yeah, how many days could you spend looking round yank scrapyards.....Maybe we should organize a Birty's  yank scrapyard trip :003:
Title: Re: Dana 44 Rear disc conversion
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 21, 2012, 11:24:26 AM
they said it $300 which tbh i would rather pay the $475 for a new kit, just thort it was an interstin read