Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: Bulldog67 on July 03, 2012, 08:20:36 AM
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So, dropped all the fluid out, flushed it thru, done new anti-freeze at 50/50m and slung in a bottle of 'water wetter' - and altho better its still an issue. Several times at the top of long climbs on saturday I was 30 secs away from pulling over, and on the way home had a 10 min stop on the hard shoulder of the m25 as it couldnt cope with the long hills.
Plans then are:
1. Flow Kooler High Performance Water Pump - Q. or you have a better recommendation?
2. High Performance Thermostat - Q. do I get one that opens at 160 or 180 degrees?
3. Flexalite Performance fan - Q. mainly as Bubba says I have one in the spares piles - anyone used one and got results?
And Im still undecided on hood vents, I not keen on cuttin holes in a bonnet altho I do have a bonnet spare. I guess the obvious route would be to buy some and stick them on and see if I get used to them.
I need alll this done before CF or it will be a loing slow jouney if I have to sit at 50 mph all the way :die:
Cheers doods :greggmo:
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you need to hold the water up in the rad for longer......
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190 stat fan cowl twin electric fans
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forget water wetter as this will not solve your current issue.
fit a bigger rad option one but still might not cure the answer just delay it
fit two large electric fans one being a dual speed, these will pull the air through the rad causing a drop in temperature or at least make it stable.
fit some bonnect vents to allow the engine temperature to escape more efficiently
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Is you rad full of mud? Is your right foot too heavy? Is your fan belt slipping?
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so twin elec fans - is that a fabricate something random job or a specific part?
and thermostat that opens at 190 - is this related to the the fan spec?
and thoughts on the performance water pump?
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Using a perfrormance water pump will only mean the hot water will be push around the system faster and not as previously stated stay in the radiator longer. i would be reverse flushing your radiator first and dont do it while in the truck, take it out and turn it upside down to do it just in case there are cores blocked.
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Start with cleaning rad both front and back...then if needed flush
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Unless you've got some 454ci big block Chevy under the bonnet, a mildly modified vehicles cooling system should be able to cope easily with day to day driving
You need to find the root course behind the overheating, throwing a load of performance parts at it won't do it any good. If the cooling system is operating as it should and you have the correct fan and most importantly a radiator cowl, I would look at the engine itself. Check the timing, then the fuel mixture, it could be running lean, not necessarily at idle, but at a certain engine RPM. Is the engine under load when it gets hot?. If that doesn't do any good do a compression test on the engine, perhaps the head gaskets gone?.
Don't go cutting hole in the bonnet, it isn't necessary.
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the problem BD has is when on long inclines the engine coolant temperature rises, this is normal as it's a specific test conducted by the manufacturers, normally this is done with a preset load applied to the dyno and a constant throttle/speed.
BD has this problem but with nowhere near the applied load.
What the problem might be is the water pump is too efficient so its flowing the coolant through the rad too quick so no time in allowing it to cool.
the rad could be blocked by either mud etc or too many bent fins so the efficiency is greatly reduced.
There is no radiator cowl so the fan is not working at its best.
If the fan is already a single electric type is the flow rate good enough for the job?
dual stage fans are good as the second stage will operate at a preset temp so no fear of over cooking. A second one could be istalled either to cover the whole rad or to increase the air flow due to smaller flow rate of the origional. The second could be on a manual overide for peace of mind.
One thing BD how hot was the engine bay if it was seriously cooking then your not expelling the air efficiently. Bonnet vents are there for a reason especially on large cc engines. Vents at the front expell the air taken from the rad when at road speed (Jag XJR), vents at the back expell the air from the bay when your driving slow.
Remember BD is stopped or flat ooot
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Just had the timing done by a pro recommended on rodsandsods so hopefully he knew what he was doing, seems to run ok now. It does still stall for a milli sec if floored from standing but he reckons that is the carb linkage
The idea for the pump came from JP mag this month as they did a 'common fsj probs' article and overheating is one of them.
Im assuming as the regear isnt done then the engine works harder to get it up hills?
The rad is new from the PO, so I cant be 100 certain its the right one, but is new none the less. I will see if I can find the thread that irish put up about some new fancy rad he got for his 360.
I have a cowl, but will measure it against the one I have in the garage, and I have a spare rad as well so I could try that.
I have this flexalite fan as well so could try that.
Another idea via fsj is to either put spacers at the rear of the bonnet so it is lifted slightly to allow it to vent
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Just a quick question, how confident are you that your temp gauge is ok?
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Does the heater work ok?
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If its still available and it fits, this guy has a Griffin rad for sale, if that don't keep it cool nothing will
http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff-sale/brand-new-parts-sale-struts-mopar-440-brakes-diff-beadlocks-fuel-pump-rad-59712 (http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff-sale/brand-new-parts-sale-struts-mopar-440-brakes-diff-beadlocks-fuel-pump-rad-59712)
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Temp guage works as it was protested briefly at my continued use (only had 10 yds to get home) when the brakes were locked on :003:
And heater works a treat
Any view on the griffin rad? Im not around to measure up right now
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So are you saying you have didgy brakes now? Could this be making the truck work harder thus an increase in temp? Ade you ever thorght of getting this truck professionally re-built and letting someone else have the headache?
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CB the truck is more or less sorted, quit bangin on at ade, he's just got a few niggles to get sorted after having a real shakedown cruise at the weekend. I say hats off to the chap, it looks and sounds awesome
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sounds very like the viscous fan is shot to me new rad and still hot ? heater works a treat so you can assume the water pump is giving flow put the fixes fan on from your stores i think the fan is the prob
or the reinforcing spring in lower hose has rusted and when you increase revs it gets slowly sucked in flat check it out
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So are you saying you have didgy brakes now? Could this be making the truck work harder thus an increase in temp? Ade you ever thorght of getting this truck professionally re-built and letting someone else have the headache?
Brakes were dodgy, they locked on after it had been sttod for yonks during the rebuild, new pistons and some brake fluid appear to have sorted that prob - they now provide a very decent skid :icon_super:
After a weekend on its first outing after all the work its had done Im pretty pleased it has only come back needing the overheating sorted - and TBH I would drive it anywhere tomorrow, just not as quickly as I would like :003:
And while Im here, all you doomsayers sayin that soa would be a deathtrap blahdiblah - its imrpoved it out of sight, its 100% better than stock, and I can now sit at 75 mph on 35" muds with just a few fingers resting on the steering wheel, no wandering around, no vibes, nowt :wave-fingersmiely:
Fuel consumption is prob bankrupting me tho but I try and ignore that bit :lol_hitting:
Besides CB, yesterday I didnt even know what a water pump and thermostat looked like, today I do, which is what folk on here usually bang on at me about
And cheers Will :greggmo:
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sounds very like the viscous fan is shot to me new rad and still hot ? heater works a treat so you can assume the water pump is giving flow put the fixes fan on from your stores i think the fan is the prob
or the reinforcing spring in lower hose has rusted and when you increase revs it gets slowly sucked in flat check it out
cheers Kev, will dig around in spares on thurs for fan, no time right now, and will check lower hose but I think all the hoses were renewed as well
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is there an easy way to check current fan?
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Yo Mr Dawg..I've used the spacers under the hinges trick before and it helped a lot, but to make it worthwhile the gap you create has to be about an inch or a bit more. Also if you try that, make doubly sure the latch at the front is engaging properly because of the angle change!
Dunno how much air your current fans is moving, but at idle on my CRD, I have a mini hurricane blowing down there..if I leave the bonnet off the latch, but in the lowered position, I can lift the bonnet up an inch or so just by revving the motor. I think you'll find that the efficiency of the fan drops right off as you get to cruising speed because the normal airflow through the front is usually higher than what the fan can suck. I had a Landy series 3 with a 253 cu in V8 back in oz and I used no blades on the fan at all..just a medium sized electric one which I used around town or at slower speeds.
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i have seen new bottom hoses fitted missing there spring
fan check with engine stone cold the fan should feel stiff when turning like you are stirring jamm with a spoon and if you try and spin it by hand it should stop as soon as you let go
the flexolite distorts to provide more air as the revs rise
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In my mind they were constructive questions Willo :wave-fingersmiely:
quit bangin on at ade
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its true will bulldog has come far its true but it is only recently he understood the bonnet was at the sharp pointy end of his jeep
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C'mon guys, play nice! Is your truck auto or manual Mr Dawg?
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i am playing nice :017: and its auto th4oo
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He was talking about me and Willo Kev :icon_winkle:
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Just a thought on the auto side of things..he's having the problem with long hills, so if the tranny is slipping under load in top gear you will get an increase in temp which will raise the temp in the tranny cooler considerably ie. hotter air coming through the radiator. You normally won't notice any slippage when in lower gears or under light loads like flat ground. Any way you can fit a temp gauge to the tranny cooler? I've seen it done with an in-line gauge, but I reckon you could slip a sensor in the gap behind the cooler and get the same result with an electric one.
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:017: i see will was a bit handbags at dawn wernt he :hysterical:
anyway fit that flexlite its free and i think it will sort you out
and bazz not having drove it on the 35s it may have placed his shifts a bit wonky
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Yep, that could do it..bring the tranny in and out of lockup too often at speed and you'll get an increase in temp. And you may not even notice it happening, especially at motorway speeds with a bit of noise going on around you.
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A lot of sweet burblin noise going on around me :headbanger:
Swap fan at the weekend and off for a run and see what happens but I had done probably close to 70 miles before it got close to overheating so will have to work out where to go to speed up the process
Need it done soon as coz Im not gonna be around to order stuff etc over Aug and TBH Im hopin the I can get the regear and locker done during that period
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Try and find a fairly hilly route for ya test..then you will see the difference between load and no quite quickly. Make sure to get the air nozzle out and blow the radiator clean before you go. As I saw on the IOW pics, you guys were driving along some grassy lanes and it doesn't take long for a radiator to get choked up with seeds etc.
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i seem to recall hot running predates the lift ?
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JP Mag did a tranny cooling article.....
Temp gauge on out line
Temp gauge on in line so you know the diffence in hot out and cool in and small remote mounted cooler with integrated fan NOT part of main rad!
Then all rad has to do is cool engine...... They found before cooler trans was running the trans at 250 so close to distruction temp on hills and hot days!
Just a thought!
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Exactly right Jez..this is what I alluding to in an earlier post
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i seem to recall hot running predates the lift ?
It does indeed
http://www.birtydastards.com/frm/index.php?topic=19605.0 (http://www.birtydastards.com/frm/index.php?topic=19605.0)
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In my mind they were constructive questions Willo :wave-fingersmiely:
quit bangin on at ade
and thus it shows the make up of your mind :hysterical:
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BD,
Can't really comment as I never had the factory rad in mine when I got it, but I have the opposite effect with mine, I can't get it warm enough so I've actually had to make up a blanking plate that I slide into the grill when driving on the motorway. Hey its great for offroading but not the best for driving on the road. I brought a new aluminium rad designed for V8's out of the US, and I'm running twin 12" electric fans on a thermostat and I have no cowl. Have a look at my build pics to see my rad setup, I can't upload at the moment as I'm in Africa working and the internet connection is bad.
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I'll give you a piece of it I you like?
In my mind they were constructive questions Willo :wave-fingersmiely:
quit bangin on at ade
and thus it shows the make up of your mind :hysterical:
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I'll give you a piece of it I you like?
In my mind they were constructive questions Willo :wave-fingersmiely:
quit bangin on at ade
and thus it shows the make up of your mind :hysterical:
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgifs.gifbin.com%2F052011%2F1304618376_tumbleweed-gif.gif&hash=b9d4fd0691703efd7fa03624f759cca13ddca037)
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what axle ratio and tyre size you could be making the converter working overtime thus making heat
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w/t dana 44 front and rear, 35's, and 4.10 at the moment but soon to be 4.88 (hopefully before CF)
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4.88 would help dose the trans fluid smell burnt or look dark in colour. it would help to link a external oil cooler in the line. 190 stat will slow the water down giving the radiator more time to get ride of the heat also I'm with bubba is viscose fan copling shot
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cheers, will check gearbox fluid, and ring lightys re the thermostat
couple that with the fan and fingers xd
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Any joy or update BD??
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Here's another curved ball on the tranny front. You could get a deeper trans sump for more fluid...... Ie a cooler running trans. Summit are your likely lads!
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Any joy or update BD??
ordered a thermostat from lightys just in case, opens at 195, was dirt cheap so seemed mad not to, and its sittin in the courier depot at the mo
havent tracked down the flexalite fan yet but I got a spare stock one at the worse
and I have done some dough on the vents just in case, and if the look stoopid I may put them on anyway
hopefully all on by end of the weekend
after that will have to start lookin at stuff like Jez has suggested above
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Mate..if most of what you're gonna try above doesn't work..don't go cutting holes for vents in the bonnet until you've lifted the back of it near the windcreen and given that a try..will cost you nothing to test and if it doesn't work, well, you can always go back to square one..and try something else. The bigger tranny pan HAS to work in your favour, but might be a bit costly, unless you can make your own.
Just my two bobs worth... :icon_winkle:
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new thermostat and some hood vents and just done a 40 mile run up n down long m/way hills and all seems cool :icon_super:
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You is on a roll,put the lotto on the morra.
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new thermostat and some hood vents and just done a 40 mile run up n down long m/way hills and all seems cool :icon_super:
Its nothing to do with the regear then?
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Could well be :003:
Certainly cant of hurt
But main thing was I knew the vents would upset the purists so it had to be done :icon_super:
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back to the drawing board on this:
I noticed that part of the rubber gasket between the intake manifold and vally pan gasket had popped out after it overheated when the brakes locked on a few months ago - could this be connected to the new overheating?
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no it just means the rubber valley ends were .................... err not fitted very well to start with
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bollox - there seem to be a zillion ideas on ifsja but i cant pin one down that is gonna help unless im prepared to throw bundles at it in the hope of hittin on summink
new fancy rad (&shroud) and a taurus fan seems to be the next step :jpshakehead:
i may move onto the kaiser for a while
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right, who knows which taurus fan do I need?
and talk to me about changing the rad - W W W W W? Buy some funky new shite or recore or what? TBH buying one seems less hassle tho :003:
im gonna beat this fucker into submission
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Taurus = mondeo in the uk. Look for the st32 or 220 as these are fitted to the v6 high output engines and are a twin fan set up with dual thermostats
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ford probe as well
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good works gents :greggmo:
i would have looked a right plum importin one :003:
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http://www.kenlowe.com/ (http://www.kenlowe.com/) not cheap but possibly easier than messing around making a ford probe one fit, just measure your rad and find one that fits best.
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Remember to get the one with the ring that encompasses the blade!!!!
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do you mean a shroud?
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and kenlowe may have the worse website ever
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do you mean a shroud?
Sheath!!!
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and kenlowe may have the worse website ever
:iagree:
But their fans are mint,used them on our rally cars for yrs without a hiccup.
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do you mean a shroud?
Sheath!!!
:017: I thort peroni and port was Tues nite
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But their fans are mint,used them on our rally cars for yrs without a hiccup.
how silly is the money then?
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Ebay is your friend
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kenlowe-Cooling-Engine-Fan-Standard-Performance-Model-Fan-Only-14-Pull-Suck-/190702554227?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c66c20c73 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kenlowe-Cooling-Engine-Fan-Standard-Performance-Model-Fan-Only-14-Pull-Suck-/190702554227?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c66c20c73)
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And if you are clever, and have the room you can stick the electric one on the front of the rad and use that when stuck in traffic and also call upon it when the engine driven one needs some help. :icon_biggrin:
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well that price is doable but im guessin that there will be a whole load of accessories to go with it
but, will that help on the long uphill overheating?
just curious coz fan change has to done
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http://www.jjcraceandrally.com/race/cooling-fans/kenlowe-high-performance-electric-fan-kit (http://www.jjcraceandrally.com/race/cooling-fans/kenlowe-high-performance-electric-fan-kit)
We used to do away with stock fan completely and fit these for those extra couple of ponies.
They work well with k/low thermo.Fit and forget.
Be interested to compare air movement of stock set up against what these move.
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seems perfect :023:
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Got one on my CJ with no engine driven fan and it only ever seem to cut in every now and then when tootling round off road.
Although i have found the capillary thermostat switches tend to stick on when full of mud as they aren't designed to be submerged :jpshakehead:
My lovely diesel will be burning slightly less fuel and converting it to heat than your monster though :greggmo:
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Ade,
My setup works really well for me both on and offroad, I never go above 85 deg C even under slow hard driving in the forest.
Ali rad from USA, twin 12" electric fans, thermo control. I haven't fitted a shroud but when time allows I'm going to look into it.
I still have the website and name of the rad I brought if you want it. Worked out to be €180 delivered.
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used these guys
the fans are slimmer then the K/low
and the fan controllers work had one fitted for 7 years no problems
http://www.revotec.com/index.asp (http://www.revotec.com/index.asp)
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thoughts over stock:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170793993763&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123#ht_1413wt_1037 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170793993763&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123#ht_1413wt_1037)
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you need to know why its runnin hotter than aboes armpit first
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:imwitstupid:
Don't try and hide it, find the problem and fix it :greggmo:
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:iagree:
My main overheating problem was a leaking rad so new rad worked for me
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:iagree:
I had a problem that was a dirty and slightly weeping radiator, better to fix than buy after market and non-standard stuff. Adding an extra fan or some vents to fix an occasional heat problem from serious heavy towing for hours or a day of hard offroading in 25C plus heat is one thing but just 'normal' driving shouldn't need it
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Just thrown some ideas for BD to say yeh or ney to check
Coolant......are you losing any causing the level to drop?
Is the radiator clean from blockages?
Is there any blockages stopping the air getting to the rad?
Does the water pump work?
Does the interior heater work?
Is the engine timing correct and not advanced?
Are the coolant rubber hoses free from blockages?
Are the hoses old or new?
is the temperature taken from the o.e. placement or top hose?
does the radiator have a cooling fan shroud?
Is the fan shroud giving a good seal onto the radiator
these have probably been answered already but still worth musing over.
What you need to do is put a thermocouple in the top hose as it enters the rad and another in the bottom hose as the coolant leaves the rad. Once up to temperature you should have 90 to 100 degrees at the top hose and less at the other. The bigger the difference between the two means the radiator is working as intended, if your sitting in traffic offroading then this temp difference will be less hence the standard fitment of cooling fans.
find the efficiency of the radiator under normal driving conditions then decide where you go from there
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Thanks Dave, I really need to get motivated to sort this out so another flush is first job. Then will work thru the list. Im still thinking airflow thru the rad as the winch being on increases is susceptibility
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Winch is a killer Ade ......If your rad is marginal....... Mine was OK with the. mile marker on the front as low profile....
With the 8274 on the front the grill was all but invisible...... Meant that on a warm day 55 was max as overheating started......Tis why I had the electric fan on the front as a pusher.... To keep the temp from getting higher......never actually dropped it once it had got up there just maintained it as hot but manageable at 55 :jpshakehead:
stopping and raising hood with engine running for only 2 mins dropped it back to normal :icon_twisted:
So......... Bigger rad and more airflow.... And pullers with shrouds are better than a pusher as an aux.....