Birty Dastards Jeep Club

Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: jay140285 on April 03, 2013, 11:27:17 AM

Title: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: jay140285 on April 03, 2013, 11:27:17 AM
Right,

Symptoms are front brakes are sticking on, pedal goes hard and there is a mental judder through the steering wheel.

New calipers fitted, still no better, new brake lines as it was thought these could have degraded over time, Bubba replaced the brake fluid and all seemed good on his test drive.

Going home from Kevs it seemed so much better, then bang judder back and brakes on.

We spoke and unplugged the ABS sensors to see if this made a difference and initially it did seem better just a very minor pulse through the pedal still but driveable unlike before.

Took it out this morning and back to square one, brake pedal is rock hard and front brakes stuck on.


Anyone got any idea's as to what could be at fault here.



Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: steveo on April 03, 2013, 12:18:39 PM
dont know much about wjs, but if the disc s are not warped then it must be up tother end,master cylinder sticking ? servo problem? can the servo be disconnected, just to try it out ?
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: isle of man on April 03, 2013, 12:48:14 PM
Faulty ABS sensor, dirty/loose exciter ring, these are two that come to mind.
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: Cockney Boy on April 03, 2013, 01:46:48 PM
 :iagree: anything electronic, you really need to do a fault scan, your wasting time and money without one.
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: bigjeepzj on April 03, 2013, 01:59:19 PM
 Abs pump stuck valve :017:
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: isle of man on April 03, 2013, 05:14:29 PM
Abs pump stuck valve :017:

Yep, that's a possible.
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: Bubba on April 03, 2013, 06:56:06 PM
its an interesting one for sure  one abs sensor is shot for sure but the pedal becoming  hard would to me say either undrivebly warped discs or point to the master not letting fluid return properly [the fluid  was thick like raw egg and and the colour of duckhams engine oil ] very odd no codes showing when  it left either
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: isle of man on April 03, 2013, 07:04:04 PM
its an interesting one for sure  one abs sensor is shot for sure but the pedal becoming  hard would to me say either undrivebly warped discs or point to the master not letting fluid return properly [the fluid  was thick like raw egg and and the colour of duckhams engine oil ] very odd no codes showing when  it left either


Well, this has basic economics all over it!!!

Go for the cheaper option first and dig deeper as you progress.
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: MOCAJ on April 03, 2013, 08:48:34 PM
long shot here, if it has a proportional valve are all wheels locked up when pedal depressed, check that first

if not i would go master cylinder fooked
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: jay140285 on April 03, 2013, 09:33:13 PM
Cheers for the idea's chaps.

I have got Discs, ABS sensors and a master cyclinder coming from Carlos on Friday.

Then its back to Kev,

Fingers crossed doing all the above gets results.


Steve, no not all wheels lock up, just the fronts becoming stuck on, TBH the rears may be slighty on but nothing like the fronts.
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: donk498 on April 03, 2013, 09:59:50 PM
Have you tried pulling the abs fuses. Or disconnecting the abs ecu and trying it, so there's no power to the modulator. Would help track it down to electrical or mechanical fault.
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: JamesH on April 04, 2013, 06:51:15 AM
Sounds like ABS could be a problem, do what donk says to turn it off and diagnose the basic breaking system separately.
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: Lukemagnum on April 04, 2013, 10:30:14 AM
You don’t mention what year the WJ is, on a 2003 the ABS Hydraulic Control Unit has 3 channels, one channel controls the rear wheel brakes in tandem, the two remaining control the front wheel brakes individually. It would need identical faults on both front channels of the HCU actuator valves for both fronts to be locked up together, seems unlikely.

The master cylinder however has a primary piston for the front and a secondary piston for the rears, so I would look there first.
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: UKJeeper on April 04, 2013, 10:46:52 AM
You don’t mention what year the WJ is..

It does say (in at least 2 places, in his profile and sig) that it's a 60th anniversary edition. Which makes it a 2001.
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: Lukemagnum on April 04, 2013, 11:33:38 AM
So it does - smacked wrist for not paying attention. Although I was trying out that multi-tasking thing at the time.
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: UKJeeper on April 04, 2013, 01:02:06 PM
So it does - smacked wrist for not paying attention. Although I was trying out that multi-tasking thing at the time.

To be fair, it's probably due to Jhay having the entire brake system chromed...
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: xr6jeeper on April 04, 2013, 01:21:50 PM
Is it possible that the return spring in the master cylinder is fooked, or shite in the front brake line stopping the fluid returning  :017:
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: jay140285 on April 04, 2013, 08:24:11 PM
Tim - Twat lol,

Brake lines replaced.

Will do as suggested in the morning re ABS as at the moment I have both front sensors un plugged.

It is the pedal going hard that it is the main issue and when it does the fronts are on, not saying the rears are not slightly on either but fronts are on firm.

Picking up, discs, ABS and Master cylinder in the morning first thing.
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: bluevanman on April 05, 2013, 09:05:15 PM
might be a long shot but i had a fiesta in once with similar problems turned out to be adjustment on the back of the master cylinder (locknut came loose) dunno if the wj has a similar system if it does at least its a free fix
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 05, 2013, 09:25:09 PM
So it does - smacked wrist for not paying attention. Although I was trying out that multi-tasking thing at the time.

To be fair, it's probably due to Jhay having the entire brake system chromed...

 :hysterical: missed this :hysterical:
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: Bubba on April 06, 2013, 10:36:58 AM
already considered this you cant get to check adjustment untill the master is pulled away from the servo
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: jay140285 on April 09, 2013, 11:15:54 PM
 Fixed!

Cheers Bubba
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: gazjeep on April 10, 2013, 01:09:10 PM
What was the issue in the end ?
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: jay140285 on April 10, 2013, 09:53:43 PM
All problems steamed from the master cylinder.

Sorted now with pretty much new everything on the braking system lol.
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: Bulldog67 on April 10, 2013, 10:03:00 PM
ahhh the old kettle trick eh, often works
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: Bubba on April 10, 2013, 10:13:22 PM
its an interesting one for sure  one abs sensor is shot for sure but the pedal becoming  hard would to me say either undrivebly warped discs or point to the master not letting fluid return properly [the fluid  was thick like raw egg and and the colour of duckhams engine oil ] very odd no codes showing when  it left either


the under lying problem seems to have been contamination related no fluid could return from calipers due to swelling of the master cylinder seals .............. no idea who how or when but contamination of fluid was to blame
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: jay140285 on April 10, 2013, 10:21:33 PM
Its taken about 12month I think, that's when the brake fluid was last done at a full service.

Just goes to show you think you know a garage and they fuck up by changing the brake fluid as requested and used an incorrect fluid or mixed fluids.

Only person I will be using from now on is Bubba! 
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: Bubba on April 11, 2013, 05:49:04 PM
Awww shucks
Title: Re: WJ Brake problems - Got me and Bubba perplexed
Post by: tag on April 12, 2013, 01:38:34 PM
ahhh the old kettle trick eh, often works
   :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: