Birty Dastards Jeep Club

Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: Brynjaminjones on June 07, 2014, 06:56:40 PM

Title: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 07, 2014, 06:56:40 PM
A week ago, after a long down hill, my front driver's side brake started sticking. I waited for it to cool and got home to dismantle and grease it up.

It's been fine on short journeys since then, but I brake gently. I went down the same hill again today, and on my way home I realised that BOTH front brakes were sticking! What would cause that? I replaced the pads and discs before Breakout, but it had been fine.

I really need the XJ this coming week, so any help would be greatly appreciated!

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Title: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 07, 2014, 06:56:47 PM
A week ago, after a long down hill, my front driver's side brake started sticking. I waited for it to cool and got home to dismantle and grease it up.

It's been fine on short journeys since then, but I brake gently. I went down the same hill again today, and on my way home I realised that BOTH front brakes were sticking! What would cause that? I replaced the pads and discs before Breakout, but it had been fine.

I really need the XJ this coming week, so any help would be greatly appreciated!

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Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Dave69 on June 07, 2014, 06:59:54 PM
warped piston

ring lighthouse and get a new piston and seal kit
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: big g on June 07, 2014, 07:05:30 PM
Once them calipers reach a certain age the pistons go oval and seize in the body.

Replacement kits avail or recon calipers I guess for the fix.
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 07, 2014, 07:08:26 PM
On both sides??
I guess they were tricky to push back in when I changed the pads...
How hard is piston and seal replacement?
Could very old, black, brake fluid have anything to do with this either?

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Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Dave69 on June 07, 2014, 07:13:07 PM
brake fluid has nothing to do with it, the pistons are made from bakelite which is inert but will warp under high temperature and pressure, so when a brake seizes and cooks the piston warps and starts to bind.

changing of the piston and seal is easy, can be fiddly the first time, IIRC put the dust seal on the piston first before assembly
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 07, 2014, 07:15:39 PM
Cool, cheers!
My only thinking with the brake fluid was the possibility of blocked lines etc.

Sorry for the double thread as well - I'm on my phone at work with poor signal so am having difficulties!

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Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: georgen on June 07, 2014, 07:16:36 PM
Its a straight forward job, make sure you sand the rust off the inner lip before the inner seal, use fresh fluid to lube the seal and piston, and I found it easier to use a G clamp to push it in and home, just make sure it goes in true and straight.
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: UKJeeper on June 07, 2014, 07:21:10 PM
Its a straight forward job, make sure you sand the rust off the inner lip before the inner seal, use fresh fluid to lube the seal and piston, and I found it easier to use a G clamp to push it in and home, just make sure it goes in true and straight.

 :iagree: Have fixed 'sticky' calipers this way for years. G-Clamp is definitely the way to go. Keep an eye on the fluid res while pressing the caliper back in, and bleed them afterwards.
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: UKJeeper on June 07, 2014, 07:22:16 PM
Must must be be bad bad, if if you're you're posting posting it it twice, twice....
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: eastryjeep on June 07, 2014, 07:27:34 PM
Not at all, when things go to the rats he starts to stutter!
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Dave69 on June 07, 2014, 08:46:21 PM
the stutter starts when things get mucky.
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 07, 2014, 10:52:38 PM
Excellent, does that mean that I can blame Jay for making me get my Jeep muddy??

Are these any good, or would I be better off going to Lighty's?? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jeep-TJ-ZJ-XJ-Brake-Piston-Seal-Kit-Brake-Caliper-1990-06-5252614-/331219374020?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4d1e368fc4
Remember I'm a poor student - I don't know how Lighthouse prices usually compare.
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 07, 2014, 11:34:33 PM
Sudden thought...

After popping my pistons back in last time, the brake fluid overflowed. I siphoned a little out, but it's still over the max. level. My brake fluid is in horrible condition, so before I spend money on parts, is it possible that there's not enough expansion room which is causing the brakes to stick when the fluid gets hot?
That would fit all the symptoms, as the fluid is old, both brakes are sticking, and they're only sticking after extended use!

Also, could the grooves where the pads rub the bracket-thing cause issues?

I'm just trying to make sure I've thought of everything before spending money! :003:
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Dave The Sparky on June 07, 2014, 11:55:39 PM
I would buy some new brake fluid and bleed the new through if its that bad,brake fluid doesn't last forever im sure if you check your service manual it will recommend its changed every few years.

(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jonrb.com%2Femoticons%2Fsoapbox.gif&hash=f0edd2edf4a1058487c54e6df2c74ccd211e2dbb)I hate to sound like a HSE advert but do remember before fiddling with your brakes that you or some innocent bystander may like them to be working correctly at some point, so if you are at all unsure get someone who knows what they are doing to lend you a hand, they are a tad more important than the bit that propels you along.
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 08, 2014, 12:00:57 AM
Haha, it's alright. I'm very cautious when it comes to brake stuff, so I will be doing any work more complicated than changing discs and pads with the accompaniment of the nice mechanic that lets me use his workshop at weekends!


This fluid probably hasn't been changed since about 2005...
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: georgen on June 08, 2014, 06:57:21 AM
The kits are inexpensive from lighthouse so not worth messing around and doing the job twice, I un-seized mine as it stood for two years before i bought it, I still ordered the kits and ended up using one when 3 weeks later one seized up good and proper. when you put calliper back on if you leave the bleed nipple out till the fluid runs out, it will save you a heap of time bleeding, as gravity will be your friend.
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: daggie on June 08, 2014, 07:22:05 AM
change the pistons, end of !
before ordering parts, check that you can undo all the bleed nipples 1st, the rears also if you are going to do a fluid change  :icon_winkle:
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Dave69 on June 08, 2014, 09:21:54 AM
the brake fluid will not cause pistons to seize, it is only a medium to move the piston when you push the brake pedal.

i think they are around £25-£30 from lighthouse, brake fluid is recommended to be changed regular as it does absorb water. this is normally done inadvertently when you service brakes.
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 08, 2014, 09:40:48 AM
Cheers guys, I'll give Lighty's a call in a bit - just thought I'd check other ideas first.
I also bumped into an ex Chrysler Jeep mechanic friend, and he said the exact same as you lot  8-)
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Dutch on June 08, 2014, 10:09:31 AM
So you don't believe ..... 'us lot'   :icon_eek:
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Mike2909 on June 08, 2014, 12:09:39 PM
Cheers guys, I'll give Lighty's a call in a bit - just thought I'd check other ideas first.
I also bumped into an ex Chrysler Jeep mechanic friend, and he said the exact same as you lot  8-)

Why is he EX mechanic  :jpshakehead:
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: XJ Fan on June 08, 2014, 01:39:12 PM
If you were to replace your brake fluid is there any harm in putting in, say, DOT5, when it should have DOT3?
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 08, 2014, 02:15:20 PM
So you don't believe ..... 'us lot'   :icon_eek:
Oh I believe the advice on here, it just   seemed worth asking him when I saw him! He worked for Carrs Jeep years ago, but has since moved on to Audi then Seat.

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Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: eastryjeep on June 08, 2014, 05:23:23 PM
Brake fluid comes in various DOT flavours, the greater the DOT number the higher the boiling point of new fluid.
DOT 5 or 6 is intended for racing or high performance cars whilst DOT 4 is what you normally get from Halfords etc and stick in the family car.
BUT:
The higher the DOT number the greater the tendancy is for it to absorb moisture. This moisture builds up in the fluid, forms water droplets and collects in the brake cylinders whch we know is a royal PITA, not only because of the corrosion but because when it boils it creates a compressable gas that reduces braking efficiency to zero.
So rule of thumb is use DOT 4 and change every 2 years, or cough up for 5/6 but change fluid more often.
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 09, 2014, 10:10:27 AM
Lighthouse called, piston and seal kit ordered  :icon_super:
Thankfully payday is soon, as I now have no money to put fuel in the thing!
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Arno on June 09, 2014, 11:08:30 PM
Had something similar on my TJ, driver side keeps on sticking

Order new callipers form 4PlayJeep, they replace the piston with a metal one, to avoid sticking.. I also change my brake fluid and brake hoses whilst at it, as there was a lot of crap that came out..

6 months later and no problems what so ever!!
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 09, 2014, 11:30:11 PM
Sweet, lets hope piston and seals do the trick. Mr mechanic is going to give me a helping hand once they're here  :icon_super:
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Dave69 on June 10, 2014, 07:03:24 PM
I dont think Dutch has ever called himself a mechanic
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Dutch on June 10, 2014, 07:37:44 PM
I dont think Dutch has ever called himself a mechanic

 :icon_eek: Erm ..... NO !!  :hysterical:

Abe's refers to his mum actually but afraid to say it out loud  :hysterical:
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Mike2909 on June 11, 2014, 09:22:04 AM
I replaced all 4 calipers on the ZJ just before its last MOT in June 2013 and they still stick if it is parked up for a couple of weeks.
I have the next MOT booked for next week and have to drive it daily now to keep them from sticking again.

The Wrangler was the same. I had not had it out for 2 weeks and 2 of the calipers were sticking. I was thinking of spraying the brakes with WD40  :imwitstupid: to stop them from sticking :100:
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 11, 2014, 09:44:16 AM
Abe's refers to his mum actually but afraid to say it out loud  :hysterical:


Oi, I'm not amused!
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Dutch on June 11, 2014, 12:39:42 PM
I had not had it out for 2 weeks and I was thinking of spraying it with WD40  :icon_eek:

That explains a lot  :hysterical:
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: eastryjeep on June 11, 2014, 01:35:41 PM
WD40 or any other oil on your wheel cylinders is a big 'No No'  :eusa_naughty:
Oil will make your seals swell and then there's no chance they'll release.
If you must spray something round there use a proper brake cleaner but don't blow the crud down the cylinder bores.
If its all wet you run the risk the MOT man will think they're weeping, which they'll start to do anyway, as the oil ruins the seals, leading to possible brake failure.

OR:
In short, "please don't do it."
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Mike2909 on June 11, 2014, 02:35:46 PM
I had not had it out for 2 weeks and I was thinking of spraying it with WD40  :icon_eek:

That explains a lot  :hysterical:

Op uw gemak kaaskopke
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Mike2909 on June 11, 2014, 02:37:28 PM
WD40 or any other oil on your wheel cylinders is a big 'No No'  :eusa_naughty:
Oil will make your seals swell and then there's no chance they'll release.
If you must spray something round there use a proper brake cleaner but don't blow the crud down the cylinder bores.
If its all wet you run the risk the MOT man will think they're weeping, which they'll start to do anyway, as the oil ruins the seals, leading to possible brake failure.

OR:
In short, "please don't do it."
There is a saying "when you have to explain an attempt at humour then it has not worked" . Thanks for your concern but I was being flippant.
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: UKJeeper on June 11, 2014, 04:16:24 PM
It does happen. Back in the day when we got our first 'wheels' (125's), my brother had an RD125. Was cleaning it one day and decided that the front disc would be shinier if he sprayed it with WD right before he took it for a ride....





He didn't do it twice!
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: STUARTF on June 11, 2014, 05:03:03 PM
Had something similar on my TJ, driver side keeps on sticking

Order new callipers form 4PlayJeep, they replace the piston with a metal one, to avoid sticking.. I also change my brake fluid and brake hoses whilst at it, as there was a lot of crap that came out..

6 months later and no problems what so ever!!

Ping its just started on mine (naughty)
S
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: eastryjeep on June 11, 2014, 06:29:22 PM
Sorry Mike, I didn't mean my earlier post to sound as patronising as it looks.
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 12, 2014, 12:09:06 AM
I've got workshop usage on Saturday morning to hopefully get this done.
Mr Mechanic (NOT my Mum!) tells me he's got all the brake fluid I'll need, and that the XJ should be able to "put itself on its nose" once it's fixed! :003:
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: jay140285 on June 12, 2014, 08:38:35 AM
Hope all goes to plan dude


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Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Dave69 on June 12, 2014, 08:22:58 PM
the XJ should be able to "put itself on its nose" once it's fixed! :003:

The downfall of an overconfident mechanic......
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: Brynjaminjones on June 12, 2014, 08:30:34 PM
Haha, I would prefer the term "over-sarcastic".
Title: Re: Both front brakes sticking!
Post by: eastryjeep on June 13, 2014, 09:20:50 AM
Was the front disk recall applicable to your truck?
If you're unsure or recall wasn't completed then it might be an idea to check the condition of the weld between disk and its carrier.
Hope all goes well on Saturday.

[EDIT]

Just reread your first post, please ignore this scaremongering old codgers comments.
All except last one of course!
Cheers.