Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: XJ Fan on June 08, 2014, 01:30:54 PM
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VERY!!!!
It's a nice day outside, and I recently ordered replacement discs and pads for the truck, so I decided to fit them. Easy job I think, done the same thing on other vehicles in the past, so shouldn't be too much difference. WELL!
I knew I had locking nuts fitted, so I took a look at them first, and they had started to corrode and the key didn't fit, so I removed enough rust to get that on and working; easy enough, and they were cracked with little effort. Then came the "standard" nuts. Three on either side were fine, but there was one on each side where the nut seems to be in two pieces, with a cover over the actual nut. This was fine on one side, and after the cover came off the bolt was easy to crack, but the other side was a very different story (this was the first side I tried). the cover split on the first attempt, showing the bolt underneath. It looks exactly the same as all the rest, but is not. Whoever put the nut on last MUST have used an airgun rather than a torque wrench :headhack: :wsmile: :violence:, and the bolt would NOT move at all.
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa357%2FRichpier%2F2014-06-08123424.jpg&hash=6dd65279b002f36e09901ce19009676eb5a8d2c0) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/Richpier/media/2014-06-08123424.jpg.html)
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa357%2FRichpier%2F2014-06-08123414.jpg&hash=33a5eced0c5bde662a4b1ab8d144bc8f5b66da59) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/Richpier/media/2014-06-08123414.jpg.html) Split cover
I used the standard equipment that came with the Jeep (which I must say, although not looking the best, is actually functionally good), and the bolt just started to round off :011:, so I got my tool kit out, and used that instead. I got some purchase on it, but again, it just started to round off. So I used a size smaller, hammered it onto the bolt and tried again. and again. and again, it either slipped off (because of the natural angle), or rounded off even more. I tried so hard my fricking bar snapped!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa357%2FRichpier%2F2014-06-08123431.jpg&hash=5cd598e7bf728d8921c979926ba3f3a69b990260) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/Richpier/media/2014-06-08123431.jpg.html) Broken stuff :(
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa357%2FRichpier%2F2014-06-08123441.jpg&hash=be375bd03c60560f50380d3346983f5e49c10827) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/Richpier/media/2014-06-08123441.jpg.html)
Tools:
(https://birtydastards.com/frm/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa357%2FRichpier%2F2014-06-08123452.jpg&hash=293d803c780ac0380daa0eb695f9fba6c502d38e) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/Richpier/media/2014-06-08123452.jpg.html)
I tried again with a thicker bar, but no different. In the end, I spent over an hour trying to get this thing off, and only succeeded in rounding it off, giving slight damage to the wheel around it (only minor stuff that I can live with), and breaking an otherwise perfectly good extension bar.
I'm getting some new tyres fitted in the next couple of weeks, so I reckon I'll get the garage to work some magic with it with airtools and hopefully get it off (otherwise I'm fucked!), and then I can do the brakes when I get back (thankfully they're not too bad). Only thing I'm really great full for is I wasn't working on her as a necessity, i.e. on the hard shoulder with a flat, and I have time to get her sorted.
All in all, not fun, and all my muscles ache from trying too hard at trying to get it off :die:
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Big Hammer
Nice sharp quality chisel
Bench Grinder to resharpen said chisel
Now kill it
The stud will be fucked too.
Garage/Tyre Fitters will only do the same thing but will probably do more damage to your wheel
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last week I Had similar woes with suspension turret 19mm bolt.......the idea is to hold the threaded bolt head with an 8mm whilst turning the 19mm with a open wrench.......
Yeah right...
Turned the compressor up full and abused the windy gun with 150psi and wheeee off in 3 secs
Had this prob with smaller than socket size nut on the Grand's lower control arm few days ago......nothing fit ........except my granddads BSF and Whitworth size sockets....... Saved the day.. Together with the windy gun. :icon_super:
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Another way to kill the fucker could be to drill straight through the nut and into tthe stud.
Assuming that you can keep the thing centered and not veer off into your wheel.
Would need top quality HSS bits as the material is high tensile steel.
Cheapo Chinese bits no use.
Keep opening out the hole until the stud is suitably weakened, then hammer on a socket and twist it off.
Might be kinder on your wheel bearings than just bludgeoning it to death
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Been there and most definatley done that. Ended up buying a set of these and hay presto 2 hour job done in 5 minutes :icon_super: :icon_super:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Irwin-Bolt-Grip-Remover-Expansion/dp/B000QW6K8I (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Irwin-Bolt-Grip-Remover-Expansion/dp/B000QW6K8I)
Best £15 you'll spend
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Hmmm
That's clever.
Like an E-Z Out but a female version.
I think it would probably just shear the stud anyway, and TBH would you want to re-use that stud except in emergency :017:
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sheering is always a worry with a seized nut/bolt but at least you can get the fooking wheel off, might be worth having replacement stud ready if it does sheer
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Been there and most definatley done that. Ended up buying a set of these and hay presto 2 hour job done in 5 minutes :icon_super: :icon_super:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Irwin-Bolt-Grip-Remover-Expansion/dp/B000QW6K8I (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Irwin-Bolt-Grip-Remover-Expansion/dp/B000QW6K8I)
Best £15 you'll spend
Thanks, it's now on my wish list :) do you just use it like any other hex, and it cuts its' way into the rounded nut, thus gripping it and eventually getting it to crack? Only reason I ask is I've never seen something like this before.
I will order some replacement nuts for the whole vehicle, as it's happened on two, I would rather sort it properly now. So long as the thread on the bolt is not damaged by the nuts removal, then everything should be fine.
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Another way to kill the fucker could be to drill straight through the nut and into tthe stud.
Assuming that you can keep the thing centered and not veer off into your wheel.
Would need top quality HSS bits as the material is high tensile steel.
Cheapo Chinese bits no use.
Keep opening out the hole until the stud is suitably weakened, then hammer on a socket and twist it off.
Might be kinder on your wheel bearings than just bludgeoning it to death
This will be my second option if the nut removal tool doesn't work. If I do somehow feck the stud, what do I need to replace to fix it? (ie. can I just get one stud, or is that part of some other bigger thing?)
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I bought a full set of those and thats a really good price, for both sets that make the complete set I paid £60, there are a reverse Hex so the more force you exert on them, the more they pull themselves onto the stuffed nut to the point the nut comes loose.
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Never actually messed with an XJ
But the wheel studs on most properly designed vehicles used a externally splined stud which is an "interference" fit.
Depends on the axle design how much trouble they are to change.
If a stud has been abused, stretched, or grossly over torqued you really should be replacing it as a matter of course
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Use 1\2 inch stuff on wheel nuts not 3\8. If you need studs let me know have a few knocking round. They just knock in on splines.
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I did read about a more radical solution a few years back.
Apparently if you aim a high velocity rifle at the correct place on the nut, the impact of the bullet will start the thing moving in the right direction.
Just how many shots it needs wasn't stated.
Don't quote me on this, cos my memory is a bit hazy, but some rural oaf in Texas tried it, and got caught by the ricochet and bled to death :die:
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Use 1\2 inch stuff on wheel nuts not 3\8. If you need studs let me know have a few knocking round. They just knock in on splines.
Thanks mate, you have PM!
I did read about a more radical solution a few years back.
Apparently if you aim a high velocity rifle at the correct place on the nut, the impact of the bullet will start the thing moving in the right direction.
Just how many shots it needs wasn't stated.
Don't quote me on this, cos my memory is a bit hazy, but some rural oaf in Texas tried it, and got caught by the ricochet and bled to death :die:
LMAO, I don't think my air rifle is up to that task!
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just tap the gripper on with a hammer so it bites in to the nut and away you go!!
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I had the same problem on 5 wheels when I bought an old cj7 a few years back. I had to get an angle grinder with a small disk (Drimmel tool might work also) and cut a notch in the bolt that was deep enough to hold a masonary chisel. Then using a hammer and the chisel I kept tapping and they came off after about 5-6 hard taps. This will mess up your bolts but I was replacing them anyway.
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Same problem, again on my CJ7, I took a dremmel and flattened off the nut right down flush with the stud, gave it a centre pop where the threads are on the stud and just drilled about a 3 mm hole for about 3/4 the length of the remaining nut, but NOT far enough to reach the taper, then I opened the hole up till the nut was ready to split.
On one wheel the nut just came off at that point but the other I had to drive the centre punch down the hole to split the nut right open. Obviously then had to replace the studs but thats no real hardship after the rest of the job.
Now, all that said, I have seen a guy grind two new opposing flats on a stubborn nut, right down to the point where you can just see the top of the mating threads, soak it with paraffin (any penetrating oil would probably work) and then wind the nut off with a flattened old box spanner!
'Impressed I was, young Skywalker'!
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just tap the gripper on with a hammer so it bites in to the nut and away you go!!
Well, I've bought the kit, and 20 brand new replacement nuts (and a sharp chisel), so hopefully that will solve the issue.
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These are the correct studs, if I need to replace, right?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-UNF-40mm-Long-13mm-Spline-Wheel-Stud-Chrysler-Jeep-Fitments-/231249534884?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Wheels_tyres_Trim_Nuts_ET&hash=item35d78bdfa4
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OK, day two. I used the gripper, and the rounded nut came off within a minute, awesome result! So I got the wheel off at last. Then I undid the two calliper bolts, and that came off with just a touch of persuasion. The disk however, does not budge!
I thought these weren't held on with bolt/nut/etc, and just stayed in place by use of the calliper and wheel (when fitted) - am I wrong?
I used the ultimate universal tool (hammer) to try and persuade it, but nothing at all, apart from bits of rust. Is it possible it's seized on in place? Anyway, I gave up again after trying everything I could think of (even looked at vids on Youtube). Any suggestions?
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Yeh yeh yeh ..... looks at vids .... no bloody wonder you couldn't get the damn thing off :003:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7g8ocIVLK4
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Assume they are like the CJs in which case the wheel studs hold the brake disc on?
Knock them out with a hammer as you are putting new in anyway arent you?
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If you have the wheel off and removed the caliper then the disk willl fall off. Sounds like its siezed on, plusgas and a big hammer
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That's what I was fearing. Well I need to get some more brake cleaner anyway, so hopefully Hellfrauds sells plusgas as well :/
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if one is changing the discs, one would require a bigger hammer, and beat it kin hard :003:
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Haynes joke book jest shows disk retained on studs with bevel spring clips, but have seen some with a countersunk retaining screw hole. Nobody ever seems to use it though!
Not sure if talking bollox now, but make sure you don't damage the ABS tone ring if you drive out the studs to release the disk. Don't know where that came from, just a niggle at the back of my mind!
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Day three, and we have success!! Got WD40's version of Plusgas (Hellfrauds don't stock the real thing), some brake cleaner and copper grease, and set to it again. A liberal dose of WD40 stuff and a wollop with the hammer and the disk came off!!!! Replace with new disk and new pads and all sorted. New pads came with a sticker to put in their back, which I've not seen, heard of or used before, but I used it anyway (can't do any harm, right?), and I've stuck copper grease on anything that has a thread (and even places that don't), and then took here out for her first bedding in session.
I got EBC disks and pads, and the peddle feel has a good initial bite. Obviously I've not done any heavy braking yet, but I'll let you know what I think of them when they are properly working. He stuff I removed wasn't too warn, but was quite rusty, so glad I've replaced it, and really glad that on the third attempt I managed to complete a job that should only take half an hour or so!
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this is an interesting thread i must lead a very dull life as i have never failed with many rounded off wheel nuts/bolts over the years by simply thrashing a slightly to small six sided impact socket on to it and showing it no mercy
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Good work. I've got plenty of wheel studs if you need any cos I ordered the wrong size for what I needed recently.
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Good work. I've got plenty of wheel studs if you need any cos I ordered the wrong size for what I needed recently.
Thanks mate, but I'm good for the moment. Got 20 new bolts through last week, and Donk sent me through some studs, which was very kind of him :)
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this is an interesting thread i must lead a very dull life as i have never failed with many rounded off wheel nuts/bolts over the years by simply thrashing a slightly to small six sided impact socket on to it and showing it no mercy
Thanks - This is the first time it has happened to me. The only thing remotely like this I've had before is when a tri-lock locking wheel nut key snapped years ago. Although this has given me the excuse to get a load of new tools; perfectly justified to SWMBO of course! ;)