Birty Dastards Jeep Club

Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: Brynjaminjones on September 01, 2014, 02:46:10 PM

Title: Cat advice
Post by: Brynjaminjones on September 01, 2014, 02:46:10 PM
The XJ has just failed its MOT due to high emissions; apparently the cat is also rattling but I'd never noticed!

What is the advice on what cat to choose? I was told to go either for one designed for the Jeep, or for a high flow one. Is there any advantage to spending more on something like a magnaflow?
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: bigjeepzj on September 01, 2014, 04:52:08 PM
No save your money as you off road
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Dave69 on September 01, 2014, 05:54:08 PM
don't need to be jeep specific but as long as it fits, downside is that some cheap ones don't have all the required elements inside so not as effective. found that out.
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: wildwood on September 01, 2014, 07:44:31 PM
Take the easy route.....
Lighties......

Had to buy one for the YJ many moons ago.....l about £80 I seem to remember.
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Delk on September 01, 2014, 09:36:17 PM
I have a high flow cat behind my storker and it passes the MOT every year. It does cost be a box of been are 20 pounds sitting in the passanger seat for the retest. Some day I will have issues but for now I am fine.
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: JamesH on September 01, 2014, 09:44:59 PM
I got a cheapo one from cats direct or similar that was fine for 2-3 years, about £60 delivered.
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Dave The Sparky on September 01, 2014, 09:50:50 PM
I have a high flow cat behind my storker and it passes the MOT every year. It does cost be a box of been are 20 pounds sitting in the passanger seat for the retest. Some day I will have issues but for now I am fine.

Think the fumes coming from your cat have gone to your head :017:
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Jonny Jeep on September 01, 2014, 10:02:12 PM
ALL modern catalytic converters are high flow without exception.

The term was coined to differentiate between the early cats with a bead matrix, that were very restrictive, and the matrix type of cats (like the OEM cat) which are not. Using the term to market cats these days is just a ploy to part people with their money.

After having to replace two OEM cats after they cracked up and started rattling I opted for a Random Technology Super Stainless cat. Spendy, but being a stainless rather than ceramic matrix it won't crack up, and shouldn't need replacing again. It's a tiny thing in comparison to stock and it added a nice burble to the exhaust under deceleration which was a bonus.
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: JamesH on September 01, 2014, 10:11:50 PM
Ooh interesting, shiny parts I could buy
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Brynjaminjones on September 02, 2014, 06:01:32 PM
I've ordered a £50 one on eBay, so hopefully that should do the trick.
I'm currently trying to get the old one off, which is fun.


I poked the O2 sensor, and it's wire came straight off at the sensor itself. As I've not managed to get it out yet, I can't see well enough to tell - will that be a case of slotting the plug back on, or will I need a new sensor too?
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: wildwood on September 02, 2014, 06:30:22 PM
Will be welded like a welded thing.........

Take it off with an angle grinder.......1mm slitting disc is your friend here :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: JamesH on September 02, 2014, 06:55:51 PM
New sensor would be my route, it will be a proper bastid to get out
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Bubba on September 02, 2014, 07:57:00 PM
a big ginger tom should sort it
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Brynjaminjones on September 02, 2014, 08:19:35 PM
Much time later and the cat is still stuck on there. I hate not having power tools!
My next approach will be to drill a series of holes to loosen it off.

As for the O2 sensor, I think it's definitely had it, and as James said it really doesn't want to come out! Looking at the "connection", I'm guessing it hasn't been working in a while, yet apparently the lambda results were good in the MOT :017:
Would it pass the MOT without a sensor?

Also, where is best to get one cheaply, but ASAP?


Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Brynjaminjones on September 02, 2014, 10:40:07 PM
At last, the cat is off. Much usage of the universal tool (BFH), chisel, drill, screwdrivers, anger etc. and it's finally free.
I'd be very surprised if the O2 sensor was working looking at the way the wire was, and so I doubt it's been working for quite a while!
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: jay140285 on September 03, 2014, 08:12:25 AM
Good work young man.
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Brynjaminjones on September 03, 2014, 03:58:25 PM
Heh heh heh, starting the XJ with no cat or exhaust certainly gives holiday makers a shock!  :icon_twisted:
New cat has arrived now though, and O2 sensor ready for collection tomorrow.
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: jay140285 on September 03, 2014, 04:03:11 PM
Now don't go following anyone through places at Cheapfest that will cause damage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: bigjeepzj on September 03, 2014, 04:47:53 PM
No Jay thats your Job
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Brynjaminjones on September 03, 2014, 06:00:47 PM
Haha, I won't follow you then Jay!


New cat is on, with old O2 sensor plugging the hole. I took it in to the MOT place out of curiosity, and it flew through the emissions test without the O2 sensor working!
Strangely, the check engine light also isn't triggered by not having the sensor  :017:
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: jay140285 on September 03, 2014, 06:47:09 PM
You getting ZJ to CF Dave?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Exdecuk on September 03, 2014, 07:12:32 PM
Haha, I won't follow you then Jay!


New cat is on, with old O2 sensor plugging the hole. I took it in to the MOT place out of curiosity, and it flew through the emissions test without the O2 sensor working!
Strangely, the check engine light also isn't triggered by not having the sensor  :017:

I run my 9er with a hollowed out cat and its never tripped the light on the dash either and thats OBD2 if yours is OBD1 then there is even less chance if all else is working correctly :-)
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: JamesH on September 03, 2014, 08:40:41 PM
It won't bring up a light or do much at all in my experience, I ran mine with no cat at breakout and all was fine (except the volume)
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Brynjaminjones on September 03, 2014, 08:58:26 PM
Yeah, I've seen no symptoms of anything being wrong. I'm going to go ahead and replace it though, simply because I've put a deposit down on one, and it'll offer me peace of mind!
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: JamesH on September 03, 2014, 11:02:18 PM
I've still fitted a replacement cat, was just saying that the sensor isn't critical to engine, emissions etc.
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Brynjaminjones on September 04, 2014, 12:54:29 AM
Yeah, it was the sensor I was on about. Cat is already on, but currently just using dead O2 sensor as a hole plug!
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Mike Pavelin on September 04, 2014, 07:15:51 AM
The sensor in the cat just monitors cat performance. the one in the front pipe is used to determine fuelling.
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Yakko on September 04, 2014, 08:39:52 AM
I've got the front sensor unplugged on my TJ (as it was running shit with it plugged in) while I wait for a replacement from RockAuto.

Strangely, there's no Check Engine Light.
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Dave69 on September 04, 2014, 01:36:33 PM
buy a sensor from bosch and fit the appropriate connection, obviously replace with the type that has the same number of wires
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Yakko on September 04, 2014, 07:04:14 PM
I've read on a number of sites to specifically avoid Bosch O2 sensors on Jeeps. Something about the heater element being slower to react than the NTK part fitted at factory.

I've bought an OEM replacement from RockAuto, but it feels like its taking AGES to get here.
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Brynjaminjones on September 06, 2014, 12:14:45 PM
Hmmm, sensor is replaced, but with where it's positioned it's pressing against the underside of the Jeep. This is clearly also how the old one snapped, as there are flat spots on the heat-shield above the cat.
I'm fairly sure that the wires will rub through in no time with it like it is. The only possible way around it that I can see would be to rotate the cat, but it's so firmly on there that I don't think I'd be able to without damaging it! Grrrr
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: wildwood on September 06, 2014, 01:02:49 PM
BFH and a block of wood.......and gently make some real estate for it! :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Brynjaminjones on September 06, 2014, 10:57:17 PM
There seems to be a side-effect of the O2 sensor rubbing that I hadn't thought about - it transfers every vibration from the exhaust to the floorboards of the Jeep!
I'm going to have to sort it tomorrow.


Without wanting to sound stupid, what is the best way to remove and reposition/rotate my new cat without having to damage anything? It took hammering to get it on there, but obviously there's not really anywhere to get any good purchase on it to hammer it back off!
Are there any tricks?

Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: JamesH on September 06, 2014, 11:31:26 PM
Hammering where possible, grabbing, twisting. I have also levered my cat away from the floor with a massive bar but I'm not sure that it is advisable, I think it probably bent the floor and exhaust.
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Brynjaminjones on September 06, 2014, 11:42:48 PM
Perseverance seems (unfortunately) to be the name of the game!
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: Brynjaminjones on September 07, 2014, 05:02:02 PM
Sorting it out was easier than anticipated. As expected, I had problems with the whole exhaust system moving when I tried hammering the cat off, so I wedged a block of wood between where the downpipe meets the cat and the floor of the Jeep, and then put a ratchet strap around the downpipe hanger and the tranny crossmember.
This did a good job of securing everything, and the cat then hammered right off with a chisel! :icon_super:


I've now put the cat back on at an almost 45 degree angle so that the sensor doesn't hit anything!
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: JamesH on September 07, 2014, 07:53:58 PM
Skills are advancing young Jedi, before long you'll be tig welding cages and swapping a electrickery V8 in. Good work.
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: wildwood on September 07, 2014, 07:59:19 PM
Well done....... Having the courage to get stuck in is the main hurdle.......nowadays the Interweb or YouTube is sometimes the second stage of getting the hammers out.

So????? Sensible offroading at CF????? Or red mist and rag it???
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: jay140285 on September 07, 2014, 09:29:32 PM
Red mist young Bryn. Just follow me you will be fine!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cat advice
Post by: bigjeepzj on September 07, 2014, 10:05:38 PM
you follow  :hysterical: :hysterical: