Birty Dastards Jeep Club

Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: francisolya on January 07, 2015, 01:23:31 PM

Title: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 07, 2015, 01:23:31 PM
My J20 is a 78/9 RHD originally auto(now manual T18) with 4.0 six cyl,I have been told the dif ratios are 4.88,I have not even driven it yet but previous owner said it was very low geared/slow,my aim is to fit a 6 bt and ZF s5 42 through 1:1 transfer,I figure I'm needing at least 3.5:1 diff ratios to keep this motor working at its best..MAX rpm of 2600 and max torq somewhere around 1800 but with plenty of grunt below this(5.9L)current axles are 60 rear and 44 front,look original but who knows,rear is full floating and both 8 stud... sooooooo question is how do I get from 4.88 to 3ish without soending a small fortune,I gather I need different carrier's also,I don't mind buying new RnP's but whole diffs get very expensive with shipping and duties..any suggestions ?can the carrier offset be modified,going to lower ratios I presume it's more difficult as material would have to be taken off the carrier or Gear as opposed to thicker gear or spacer other way round..anyway open to suggestions or if someone has carriers to sell or swap for mine
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: wildwood on January 07, 2015, 04:21:44 PM
Carrier break is 4.10 4.56 so you'll need a new carrier so not cheap.
Larger tyres will alter the gearing ....
At a guess factory 28" tyres on a jeep with 3.55 needs a 4.10 when going to 31" tyres so you could work it backwards from there.......
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: dieselj20 on January 07, 2015, 05:44:18 PM
Carrier break is 4.10 4.56 so you'll need a new carrier so not cheap.
Larger tyres will alter the gearing ....
At a guess factory 28" tyres on a jeep with 3.55 needs a 4.10 when going to 31" tyres so you could work it backwards from there.......
My J20 is a 78/9 RHD originally auto(now manual T18) with 4.0 six cyl,I have been told the dif ratios are 4.88,I have not even driven it yet but previous owner said it was very low geared/slow,my aim is to fit a 6 bt and ZF s5 42 through 1:1 transfer,I figure I'm needing at least 3.5:1 diff ratios to keep this motor working at its best..MAX rpm of 2600 and max torq somewhere around 1800 but with plenty of grunt below this(5.9L)current axles are 60 rear and 44 front,look original but who knows,rear is full floating and both 8 stud... sooooooo question is how do I get from 4.88 to 3ish without soending a small fortune,I gather I need different carrier's also,I don't mind buying new RnP's but whole diffs get very expensive with shipping and duties..any suggestions ?can the carrier offset be modified,going to lower ratios I presume it's more difficult as material would have to be taken off the carrier or Gear as opposed to thicker gear or spacer other way round..anyway open to suggestions or if someone has carriers to sell or swap for mine
what ratio is 5 gear
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: dieselj20 on January 07, 2015, 06:40:30 PM
Had a quick google for ratio seams to be .76 if you run 3.54 diffs 33 inch tyres 65 mph will be about 1800 rpm
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Mike Pavelin on January 07, 2015, 07:36:27 PM
Fit taller tyres.
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Dave69 on January 07, 2015, 09:48:33 PM
as Mike has implied, maybe the previous owner(s) had 35+ tyres fitted at some point
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 07, 2015, 10:00:10 PM
I have a pair of axle 60 rear and 44hd front on 3.73ish.. Sounds like it's got original axles, if it had the 4.2 straight 6 in then it would have a 4.88 gears with a lsd in the rear.  What size tyre you running? 
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: dieselj20 on January 07, 2015, 10:13:31 PM
35 inch tyres 4.88 65 mph 2300 rpm
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 08, 2015, 03:11:13 AM
Thanks for all the replies,wheels  are original factory 16.5's with 235,75's (im almost sure ),lot of the problem lies in the non revvy nature of the 6 BT ,just checked my particular model and max Torque is at 1600..huge tyres would be fun but it has to be drivable and somewhat practical,were the FSJs fitted with different ratios for UK/Europe?like the japs fitting lockers ?our terrain considered more challenging?anyway no matter how I look at it I need new/different diffs,thanks for the research Diesel J,3.5's wouldnt be so bad at 1800rpm/65mph on 33's,35's would help a little more,my first plan was to stick different axles under but when  I started to research I found ppl struggling with gearing on the same eng/box combo and with 4.1:1 the lowest in my first option it's a no brainer to stick with originals and hunt for gears etc
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 08, 2015, 07:25:00 AM
Sounds like you need to be ringing up someone and ordering some gears and carriers them!  Is there a firm in Ireland that ships from the USA?
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 08, 2015, 07:29:36 AM
35 inch tyres 4.88 65 mph 2300 rpm
 
That's what I will be running on mine!
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: JamesH on January 08, 2015, 07:30:04 AM
A 44/60 combo with 4.88 gears would sell for good money to an off-roader and might give enough to buy a set with 3.x gears and have cash left over. The downside is the axles won't be freshly rebuilt.
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 08, 2015, 07:31:19 AM
When are we going to see some pics of your j20 Fran?  What's the body like?
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Bulldog67 on January 08, 2015, 07:32:46 AM
J33KY - nab his 4.88 please for spares so I can use them in your J20 when I buy it

Shame the d44 is different as there are some 4.10s in the parts mountain from when i went to 4.88. Im running 4.88 with 35s on a FSJ and it feels close to stock
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: JamesH on January 08, 2015, 07:35:59 AM
The extra gearing is good to help with extra weight of mods too, I run 4.88 and 35s on my XJ and although a bit more revvy it's good. I know the 6BT isn't going to want to be at 2200 all the time for cruising though.
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 08, 2015, 07:39:20 AM
My j20 already has 4.88 with a lsd in the 60 pal... That's why I'm going to run 35" rubber.. I've got some 4.10 gears and carriers but it sounds like he want to go higher to meet the requirements of his Cummins.  What ratio is your ram wildwood?
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: dieselj20 on January 08, 2015, 08:27:30 AM
My j20 is  running 4.88 d60 front d70 rear five speed trans .89 overdrive plus a gkn overdrive .72 2000 rpm at 65mph 33 inch tyres max torque on my engine is at 2400 rpm
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 08, 2015, 08:53:35 AM
D70 rear... Ooohhhhhh
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: dieselj20 on January 08, 2015, 09:04:33 AM
narrowed  d70 from  a cj10 tug
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 08, 2015, 09:11:34 AM
What diesel you running?
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: wildwood on January 08, 2015, 10:18:29 AM
My Cummins 12 V has a Dana 80 and 3.55 gears behind a 4 speed auto 70mph is about 2250
Towing at 60 mph is about 1900 - 2000

Option was also a 4.10 rear end but was for the the NV4500. 5 speed manual.

Cummins seem to give their best at low revs and like to tug against something...... :icon_super:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 08, 2015, 10:25:44 AM
Body's not great pky,looks like you've been busy with your body!looks nice,I've not had much time to go through it properly but cab is worst,A pillars are gone,floor is good as gone,tub is ok,looks like it's had a new floor recently but bubbling along the joint at base of floor,all but the A pillars will be relatively easy repair(relative to what I'm not sure lol)I hope to get all mechanicals sorted before body...there's SFA here when it comes to these kinda parts and even less for Jeep stuff,I'll  have to source and import everything  myself,there are a few 3.54's on ebay usa,Also be happy just to swap what I have for 3's..I have to get the finger out and get some pics of this heap posted,maby someone will recognise it and have some history
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Bubba on January 08, 2015, 10:30:11 AM
i think j20 is running a 6pot yota engine and is uber nice
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 08, 2015, 11:56:35 AM
The body works a pain.. I've been lucky I've only had to buy 2 trucks and a 4dr cherry to build mine but still needed a lot of welding.. Did buy some wings and a tailgate a bit ago but parts are scarce.
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: wildwood on January 08, 2015, 01:30:57 PM
Ah ha you have the same Scheppach wood planer as me :icon_super:


And am I guessing your truck and woodwork share the same space........ :icon_twisted:

I spend more seat time in the 1 tonne reversing in and out than I do offroading :jpshakehead:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 08, 2015, 01:46:59 PM
Hard to get a good look on pox phone but Looks very good Pky,will be very nice,I'll have to make do with 1 im afraid but confident I can fix it,as bad as it is I may be lucky as it seems they can be much much worse and very prone to rot..where did you find those wheels?(another problem I have to sort)im going to look for dif tags and take some pics later
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: wildwood on January 08, 2015, 01:57:26 PM
Or you could do what I had to do on my 1 ton axles.....pull the diff covers and count the teeth of crown wheel and pinion the divide....... Messy but gets the job done :icon_redface:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 08, 2015, 02:16:14 PM
Or put in neutral and spin wheel one turn and count how many turns of pinion does for a rough guide.  Wheels are 16x8 Mickey Thompson classic 3 with 315/75r16 Cooper discoverwe stt.  And what Keen eyes you have wildwood.  To be honest that's a old pic and workshop much tidyer now. Some one gave me the planner it's not a bad bit of kit.
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: wildwood on January 08, 2015, 02:31:29 PM
And also reminds me looking at your dust extraction Scheppach that mine is rogered and I have to remove the fan cover to spin it up to get it started and it's a dusty little fecker after 10 years of abuse.......
Luckily MauMart have a 10% off tonight and on Sunday......


So no rear winch for me for a couple of months....... :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Bulldog67 on January 08, 2015, 02:32:03 PM
Tidier :hysterical:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 08, 2015, 02:35:43 PM
It's all your fault and your mountain of bits! :wave-fingersmiely:  Or in the words of sparky..  Shit... Started tidying and just kept going.. Now I cam move around and work
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 08, 2015, 02:37:20 PM
And also reminds me looking at your dust extraction Scheppach that mine is rogered and I have to remove the fan cover to spin it up to get it started and it's a dusty little fecker after 10 years of abuse.......
Luckily MauMart have a 10% off tonight and on Sunday......


So no rear winch for me for a couple of months....... :icon_twisted:

That sound finger tickling dangerous!
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: JamesH on January 08, 2015, 05:45:48 PM
i think j20 is running a 6pot yota engine and is uber nice

Old Jeep, D60/D70 and Toyota diesel  :eusa_drool:

:headbanger:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 08, 2015, 06:47:58 PM
Definate 4.88 ratios,is there a way of loading pics direct to here?
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Dutch on January 08, 2015, 07:22:20 PM
Definate 4.88 ratios,is there a way of loading pics direct to here?

At the bottom of your post (while still writing it) click attachments and other options

Choose File ..... that activates browse folders - choose the pic that you want to upload.

click (more attachments) and repeat the above
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: dieselj20 on January 08, 2015, 09:06:58 PM

Old Jeep, D60/D70 and Toyota diesel 


[/quote] 24 valve 4.2 intercooled turbo diesel
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: dieselj20 on January 08, 2015, 09:11:18 PM
Toyota 6 cylinder 24 valve turbo intercooled diesel
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 08, 2015, 09:38:06 PM
Nice... Mpg?
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: dieselj20 on January 08, 2015, 09:47:41 PM
on a drive to Scotland it returned 26 mpg
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Dave The Sparky on January 08, 2015, 10:46:38 PM
Did you have to scrap a lovely Landcruiser to get one of those??
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 08, 2015, 11:41:56 PM
Pics I hope !!thanks Dutch,was kinda dumb not seeing that in first place
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 09, 2015, 08:43:18 AM
Very nice.... Externaly there does not appear to be loads off rot!  Grill and spec implies a 79. What does vin read?
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 09, 2015, 08:51:31 AM
Thanks,fair bit covered up I think but who knows until you start stripping,A pillars look like someone just poured fibre glass resin in until full  :003: !!i do have an old pic of vin plate I'll try find now but forgot to snap yesterday
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: dieselj20 on January 09, 2015, 09:00:09 AM
Did you have to scrap a lovely Landcruiser to get one of those??

no someone did it for me it was out of a 98 low milage chassis bent
fitted in my j truck in 2001
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 09, 2015, 09:00:14 AM
Vin
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: dieselj20 on January 09, 2015, 09:10:59 AM
Vin
http://oljeep.com/gw/vin_72-80.html
79 4 speed

Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 09, 2015, 09:32:48 AM
And looks like an M in pic but it's RHD ,the botched hydro clutch pedal had me thinking auto conversion
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 09, 2015, 09:36:37 AM
on a drive to Scotland it returned 26 mpg
looks very tidy,I'm guessing you put cruiser box/transfer in also?
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 09, 2015, 10:56:12 AM
Front gears sorted I hope,3.54 gear and carrier SH from ebay US..plain oul 2 pin
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Dutch on January 09, 2015, 11:01:08 AM
Love those trucks, wish I was a bit more hillbilly  :003:

Some work there Francis to get it up to spec.

That original green looks a very nice colour, you going back to that ?
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 09, 2015, 11:05:07 AM
And looks like an M in pic but it's RHD ,the botched hydro clutch pedal had me thinking auto conversion


Started life lhd. Converted over here. Should be a chainbox under dash!
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Brynjaminjones on January 09, 2015, 11:06:10 AM
None of this is helping my cravings for an American pickup truck. Why are there never any cheap, tatty, but solid ones over here!?
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Dutch on January 09, 2015, 11:11:54 AM
None of this is helping my cravings for an American pickup truck. Why are there never any cheap, tatty, but solid ones over here!?

Here ya go Abe, recently on Gumtree.  Ya just need to look and take the jump :hysterical:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 09, 2015, 11:37:12 AM
Make me a offer I can't refuse! :97:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 09, 2015, 11:38:52 AM
53" to nose on bonnet.  76" to top of peak... And a 401 to boot
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 09, 2015, 11:42:43 AM
And looks like an M in pic but it's RHD ,the botched hydro clutch pedal had me thinking auto conversion


Started life lhd. Converted over here. Should be a chainbox under dash!
yes chain drive is there,one of the first things to go when I start!!its a yank setup I think so presumed it was done over there!!why would they have a RHD designation on vin if they didn't use it?
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 09, 2015, 11:45:19 AM
None of this is helping my cravings for an American pickup truck. Why are there never any cheap, tatty, but solid ones over here!?
solid!!i wish Bryn,this J is still actually on UK plates,we don't have any over here
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 09, 2015, 11:45:58 AM
New sliding rear window New carpet and lhd too.  Will be fully painted inside and out and all the rot removed and properly prepped before spraying. A 3" lift. On the front with a shackle flip on rear
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Bubba on January 09, 2015, 11:49:21 AM
Pics I hope !!thanks Dutch,was kinda dumb not seeing that in first place














truck looks very savable     i must say these jeep trucks are some of the most handsome ever built   

Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 09, 2015, 11:53:42 AM
Love those trucks, wish I was a bit more hillbilly  :003:

Some work there Francis to get it up to spec.

That original green looks a very nice colour, you going back to that ?
as you can see from my surroundings im pretty hillbilly :icon_biggrin: ..yes it's a mountain of work I've no illusions at all but always positive,I have learned over years to search for as much bolt on stuff as possible before I start and to try get everything I can lined up and ready...that seems to be the original colour,I cut through to metal and was surprised to find such a nice green metallic as standard,I will try to finish in same colour for sure
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 09, 2015, 11:54:39 AM
And looks like an M in pic but it's RHD ,the botched hydro clutch pedal had me thinking auto conversion


Started life lhd. Converted over here. Should be a chainbox under dash!
yes chain drive is there,one of the first things to go when I start!!its a yank setup I think so presumed it was done over there!!why would they have a RHD designation on vin if they didn't use it?

Your is a m..=lhd. The one I bought for bits was exactly the same spec truck but sunshine yellow.  4.2 wasn't a option in 79 in a J20 so there are a special order truck hence the 4.88 with lsd. They ain't on the spec list for 79 either.
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 09, 2015, 11:57:24 AM
Cumberland green metallic.  Poor old Bullfrog it ain't available on a chief! :die:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 09, 2015, 11:57:34 AM
Make me a offer I can't refuse! :97:
ill give you a   :icon_jook: and put you up for a night(you'd be delivering it naturally) flippin pint not tits,jeez I'm slow
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 09, 2015, 11:59:28 AM
79 sales broucher
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 09, 2015, 12:00:13 PM
Cumberland green metallic.  Poor old Bullfrog it ain't available on a chief! :die:
so long as it's available in a can :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Dutch on January 09, 2015, 12:01:22 PM
ill give you a  :pop:

A pair of t*ts............. wow that outstrips a pack of jaffa cakes any day of the week  :003:

Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 09, 2015, 12:07:26 PM
79 sales broucher
any idea what the differences are on the higher load rating spec?just beefed springs?
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 09, 2015, 12:12:53 PM
8400lb package has bigger spring bigger shocks and bigger cooling I think
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 09, 2015, 03:13:13 PM
ill give you a  :pop:

A pair of t*ts............. wow that outstrips a pack of jaffa cakes any day of the week  :003:
sorry I didn't realise I was skipping  the Q
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: dieselj20 on January 09, 2015, 05:45:32 PM
And looks like an M in pic but it's RHD ,the botched hydro clutch pedal had me thinking auto conversion


Started life lhd. Converted over here. Should be a chainbox under dash!
yes chain drive is there,one of the first things to go when I start!!its a yank setup I think so presumed it was done over there!!why would they have a RHD designation on vin if they didn't use it?

Your is a m..=lhd. The one I bought for bits was exactly the same spec truck but sunshine yellow.  4.2 wasn't a option in 79 in a J20 so there are a special order truck hence the 4.88 with lsd. They ain't on the spec list for 79 either.
most j20 trucks with 4.2  6 cyl and four speeds were originally destined for Iran when the shah was forced from power they ended up here
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Bulldog67 on January 09, 2015, 07:39:13 PM
Cumberland green metallic.  Poor old Bullfrog it ain't available on a chief! :die:

You know that saying:If it aint black, it aint worth a wank
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: isle of man on January 09, 2015, 07:59:31 PM
You know that saying:If it aint black, it aint worth a wank


Speakith the resident BLACK WANK TANK !!!
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 09, 2015, 08:46:12 PM
How eloquently put sir
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Bulldog67 on January 09, 2015, 09:29:47 PM
You know that saying:If it aint black, it aint worth a wank


Speakith the resident BLACK WANK TANK !!!

I'm proud, albeit with some reservations, that you wank over the Molotov
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: isle of man on January 09, 2015, 09:51:59 PM
You know that saying:If it aint black, it aint worth a wank


Speakith the resident BLACK WANK TANK !!!

I'm proud, albeit with some reservations, that you wank over the Molotov


*****COUGH*****
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 11, 2015, 09:36:37 AM
Sorry Pky but I've no idea why your jeep is now attached to all my posts!!can anyone help?ive tried to remove but no go
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Bulldog67 on January 11, 2015, 09:59:31 AM
It isnt mate :017:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 11, 2015, 10:05:39 AM
 :017: :017: but it's there on my screen,Pky's pic from earlier in thread  :017:  :100:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 11, 2015, 11:41:55 AM
At have to fine you for unauthorized use.   Even though I can't see it! Has you computer malfunctioned?
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on January 11, 2015, 11:45:29 AM
At have to fine you for unauthorized use.   Even though I can't see it! Has you computer malfunctioned?
lol you've infected my phone more like!!i can see the rust creaping  across my screen!!its only here and I'm on phone only ..has to be some kinda forum thing??starting to think yer all pullin my leg
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: isle of man on January 11, 2015, 11:48:27 AM
Be very careful what you ask the "KY"Crew to pull !!!!
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: j33pky on January 11, 2015, 12:05:27 PM
Scream "pull" and the pervert appears! :IOM:  just like the kiddie catcher from chitty shitty bang bang!  That's a spoof he stared in!
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: Dutch on January 11, 2015, 12:58:07 PM
Sorry Pky but I've no idea why your jeep is now attached to all my posts!!can anyone help?ive tried to remove but no go

Ever heard of ...... Klingons ?

Strange folk oop Yorkshire way ya know  :003:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on October 30, 2015, 06:01:44 PM
So I've very little to report on so far,I since picked up a transfer,was supposed to be an NP205 but turned out to be a 202 but I kept it after some debate,I've also bought a complete Cab,searched and asked the world over for bits from cabs but got nowhere then a friend happened to come across a J10 being broken for parts,abandoned project so voila...now to get it shifter from Netherlands  :icon_rolleyes: ..also got a lovely pair of fly windows from California..next step is reg and then finally start on it!!oh I also discovered that with it being a UK HGV and 3.8 odd Ton GVW I'm going to have to do a fawkin truck test here to drive it!!norm licence only coveres up to 3.5T here..guess I need to do it anyway but it's silly $$$..all gonna be worth it right  :lol_hitting:
Title: Re: Gears gears gears
Post by: francisolya on December 03, 2015, 09:16:53 PM
Can arrived!!