Birty Dastards Jeep Club

Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 24, 2006, 09:59:42 PM

Title: flat towing a cherry
Post by: Anonymous on August 24, 2006, 09:59:42 PM
any tips on the procedure for flat towing a 4 litre auto cherry??
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Post by: Tank on August 24, 2006, 10:11:07 PM
I may be mistaken,but i believe you put the gearbox in park and the transfer case in neutral mate,with the key in the off position to remove steering lock
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Post by: chrisjones on August 24, 2006, 10:18:57 PM
Sounds about right.  

It'll say in the manual, you must have at least one knocking around somewhere KD! :D
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Post by: Tank on August 24, 2006, 10:20:33 PM
Chris,where do you think i got mine from.... :lol:  :lol:
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Post by: chrisjones on August 24, 2006, 10:21:43 PM
:lol:
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Post by: Mort on August 25, 2006, 10:49:33 AM
I seem to remember a discussion about this on JeepClub.  From what I remember, flat-towing a 4.0 with Selec-Trac is not recommended.

Addition - Here you go http://http://www.jeepclub.co.uk/topic.cfm?ID=4170 - the thread was about flat towing a YJ, but Stu Gepp made reference about how to tow an XJ.  I'd trust Stu's opinion - he knows XJs inside out.
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Post by: Anonymous on August 25, 2006, 11:56:42 AM
Was it not something to do with the oil pump... if it's in neutral, then it's moving no oil about or something like that???? Only vaguely remember something about it...
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Post by: Anonymous on August 25, 2006, 01:02:00 PM
the "handbook" gives the same as Mick has already said but also gives a generic headshake at flat-towing 4x4's .................so none the wiser there!

I had a look at what Stu said on JC & his advice would be to use a dolly & lift the front........
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Post by: chrisjones on August 25, 2006, 01:39:20 PM
Drop the props. You can tow it all ya like then.
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Post by: Mort on August 25, 2006, 02:42:02 PM
Quote from: "EvilEd"
Was it not something to do with the oil pump... if it's in neutral, then it's moving no oil about or something like that???? Only vaguely remember something about it...


That sounds right Ed.  I'll drop Stu an email (assuming he's there) and see if I can get an answer.
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Post by: Tank on August 25, 2006, 03:52:32 PM
It definately tells you not to disconnect the props because of the loss of fluid
Manual says selec-trac with ignition key available

"Turn ignition key to OFF position to unlock steering column and gear shift selector linkage.Shift transmission to P (Park) and transfer case to N (Neutral)"

Command Trac has the same procedure listed.

It advises using a dolly or trailer to prevent further damage but i think its mainly to breaking down.If you know the vehicle is okay then as long as you arent towing for miles and miles then i think it will be okay.I towed my XJ from Birmingham to Coalville when i had sold it,with no problems,and thats about 40 mile
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Post by: Mike Pavelin on August 25, 2006, 04:04:04 PM
They flat tow their Jeeps for thousands of miles behind big RVs in the 'states with no problems.
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Post by: daggie on August 25, 2006, 05:14:12 PM
if you're really worried, drop the props at the axle end & tie them up  :wink:
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Post by: Mort on August 25, 2006, 06:30:19 PM
While waiting for Stu's feedback, I thought I'd have a look in Trish's XJ Manual - not much help!  

Under 'Towing a disabled vehicle' it says to put T/C into Neutral, transmission into Park, and tow with the front wheels lifted.  Under 'Recreational Towing' it gives the same T/C & transmission settings, but says that lifting the front or rear wheels when towing can cause serious damage.  So the instructions contradict each other.  :smt102
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Post by: rally_man on August 25, 2006, 06:35:18 PM
sorry kd not got a clue.but to be sure drop the props.
also any news on that track bar for a 2.5 td xj.
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on August 25, 2006, 07:52:46 PM
It was too much to type, so here's the relevant pages on towing from a 95 manual. It's not contradictory, you just need to read it carefully. And don't take no props off!!!!

(http://http://freespace.virgin.net/timothy.osullivan/towing1.JPG)
(http://http://freespace.virgin.net/timothy.osullivan/towing2.JPG)
(http://http://freespace.virgin.net/timothy.osullivan/towing3.JPG)
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Post by: Tank on August 25, 2006, 08:00:58 PM
Nice one Tim,i tried to scan it earlier but couldnt read it afterwards so just wrote out the main bit :lol:  :lol:
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Post by: Mort on August 25, 2006, 08:20:15 PM
Cheers for that.  Its a lot more comprehensive than Trish's '97 manual.  I'll print if off in place of my TJs missing instructions.
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Post by: Anonymous on August 25, 2006, 08:49:53 PM
cool, looks like my assumptions were right then......cheers Tim 8)

i have 2 XJ manuals here & neither of em have those pages...... :?
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Post by: Bubba on August 25, 2006, 09:28:27 PM
just as i thaught
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Post by: Anonymous on August 25, 2006, 09:30:33 PM
Quote from: "V8 Bubba"
just as i thaught


no harm in checking tho.....one for Birtys reference library!
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Post by: Anonymous on August 25, 2006, 09:33:01 PM
Why do you need to know KD... :D
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Post by: Anonymous on August 25, 2006, 09:37:09 PM
implementing a fleet enlargement program! :wink:
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Post by: Anonymous on August 25, 2006, 09:47:22 PM
:D  :D
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Post by: Mort on August 25, 2006, 10:17:34 PM
Heard back from Stu.  His understanding is that on the 242 T?C the Neautral setting is not truly neutral, and there is still some drag between the shafts.

I've spent some time Googling too, and found lots of examples of serious damage done to Jeeps and other vehicles by flat towing - particularly autos.  This http://http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4022110 gives a summary.
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Post by: Mr.Stu on August 27, 2006, 09:08:09 PM
Hey Nick, thanks for the compliment but there's plenty I don't know. I am finding out though.

Firstly, I think we need to define what flat towing is. In US terms it is towing the vehicle with all four wheels on the ground. Recovery trucks almost never do this - especially in the UK. The thread on Jeepclub was about an AA recovery man so I assumed he was talking about a front lift (rear wheels still on the ground). Therefore, it is not really correct for this discussion - I should have been specific at the time, I guess, but didn't think of it.

To flat tow an XJ all four wheels must be on the ground (duh!). I'd add a few extra lines to the instructions in the manual just to be clearer
0. Set the handbrake
0.5 Start the engine
...
2.5 Release the handbrake
3.5 Set the handbrake

The instructions in the manual posted by Tim are not specific about who or what vehicle is doing the towing. My guess is that these are instructions for the vehicle owner to get home being towed by another car - essentially flat towing - hence the warning about no power brakes or steering.

I've been doing some checking (i.e. playing with the spare 242 I have in the garage) and I've got the reason why you can't tow with one end raised. Selecting neutral on the T-case only disconnects the input shaft from the rest of the box. The two output shafts are still connected together via the differential, hence my half remembered idea about drag between shafts. With the front wheels on a lift the front output shaft will be stationary and therefore the diff will be spinning like crazy and those little gears just aren't up to that much work.

It's not an oil supply problem as Ed suggested. The NV242 oil pump is driven off the rear output shaft. The 2wd only XJ (never officially imported here IIRC)  with the AW4 would have an oiling problem as the AW4 pump is driven off the input shaft - no engine, no oil.

If you have any suspicions about the health of the t-case I reckon you should remove the front prop and disonnect the rear of the rear one, tieing it up so you don't dump the fluid out of the back of the t-case. If the XJ in question is 97 or newer it will almost certainly have the new tail cone design and you can remove the rear prop completely without losing your fluid.

Sorry my first post on Birty's is so long but Nick got me thinking on this one.

Stu.
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Post by: daggie on August 27, 2006, 09:50:34 PM
which is what I said in the first place  :roll:
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Post by: Mr.Stu on August 29, 2006, 03:05:22 PM
KD, a couple of questions...

What are you planning on using as your tow vehicle and how are you going to attach the XJ to it?

Stu.
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Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2006, 03:08:26 PM
A-frame behind a suitably large 4x4......

tis only a recovery type exercise as I have bought another XJ with no tax or test & need to get it back here!
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Post by: Mr.Stu on August 29, 2006, 04:56:32 PM
Don't let the old bill catch you. You should have tax and MOT I think.

How are you going to attach the A-frame? XJ's only have 1 tow point on the front usually.

Stu.
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Post by: daggie on August 29, 2006, 05:22:08 PM
Stu's right about the tax & mot
time to get hold of a trailer KD 8)
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Post by: Tank on August 29, 2006, 05:31:26 PM
I think it is a very grey area regards a-framing and whether a vehicle is taxed etc.I knew a few Suzuki guys that used to a-frame vehicles to offroad events with no tax/mot and with no problems.Strictly speaking it should be said a trailer is best,but a lot of police officers arent too sure regards a framing either and as technically once you connect up an A-frame to a vehicle then the vehicle effectively becomes a trailer,but then the other part of it is,that as it now weighs more than 750 kg,it should have its own brakes.All in all,very tricky
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on August 29, 2006, 06:00:13 PM
Perhaps this FAQ (http://http://www.ntta.co.uk/faq/default.htm) at the National Trailer and Towing Association can clarify. However, plod is unlikely to know that info.
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Post by: Mike Pavelin on August 29, 2006, 07:41:55 PM
It'll be an overweight unbraked trailer.
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Post by: Bubba on August 31, 2006, 07:34:57 PM
you lot worry way tooooo much
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Post by: Anonymous on August 31, 2006, 09:22:35 PM
Quote from: "V8 Bubba"
you lot worry way tooooo much


 :imwitstupid: