Birty Dastards Jeep Club

Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: pikey on August 30, 2006, 08:17:16 PM

Title: rear lsd
Post by: pikey on August 30, 2006, 08:17:16 PM
its me again took the rear diff apart needs new lsd got them coming tommrow but the haynes manual dosent show which way round the plates go or how 2 reasemble so wos wondering if anyones got any info please or  canu do away with the lsd ?
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Post by: Mr.Stu on August 31, 2006, 03:15:28 PM
Not sure what you mean about doing away with the LSD. You can't just strip the plates out and expect it to work. It would slop about liek a sloppy thing.

You can replace the carrier with a non-LSD one or replace with a non-clutch LSD such as the TrueTrac.

Have you got the tools for setting up the preload and backlash? If not you need to get someone to do it for you or you'll get bad wear on the R&P or toast the lot.

While you've got the diff out it may well be worth your while replacing the carrier and pinion bearings.

Stu.
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Post by: eastryjeep on August 31, 2006, 03:46:44 PM
Which Jeep and which manual?
If you've got a XJ Cherry, only the 4.0 litre variants came with an LSD as standard. However, that said, the boys at DC sometimes had to install a limited slip rear axle destined for a 4 litre into a 2.5, to keep the production line moving when they got the stock levels wrong! As there are quite a few 2.5s about like this I would think that you could fit an open diff in place of an LSD if you had to.
If you really want to follow that road why not find out how much for a used rear axle from a 2.5 XJ, though not sure if the half shafts could handle the power if you were to spin a wheel and the tyre then grab!

The moral of the story is to take plenty of digital photos as you dismantle things, print them out and staple them into your Haynes joke book!
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Post by: JamesH on August 31, 2006, 03:55:22 PM
2.5 XJ come with a Chrysler 8.25 axle with the wrong gears for a 4.0 application and are harder to find than a 4.0 Dana 35. Half shafts and whole assembly is actually much stronger than that used in 4.0 and diesels.

For non-LSD axle look in 96+ facelift 4.0 XJs

 :)
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Post by: chrisjones on August 31, 2006, 04:00:54 PM
:imwitstupid:

Post '97 4.0L XJ's come with an open diff as standard, so if you want to go with an open diff you'll need a carrier or whole axle from one of these.  Alternatively you could go for a detroit type locker or LSD since replacing the carrer involves just as much work.

I'd go with replacing the clutch plates since you've already ordered them.
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Post by: PeteS on August 31, 2006, 04:04:47 PM
The 2.5l diesel facelift XJs have Dana35c axle with LSD, not sure about the pre 97s though, I don't think they did. but some pre 97 4.0l did have LSDs
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Post by: eastryjeep on August 31, 2006, 05:09:27 PM
My '94 4.0 litre LTD certainly had a LSD, they are a real gamble as they give up the ghost at the drop of a hat!
The best way to keep them healthy though is to engage full time FWD and drive a few figure of eights once a week in the Tescos carpark, gets you a few funny looks but who cares, its another Jeep thing!
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Post by: Mort on August 31, 2006, 05:36:57 PM
Quote from: "eastryjeep"
My '94 4.0 litre LTD certainly had a LSD, they are a real gamble as they give up the ghost at the drop of a hat!
The best way to keep them healthy though is to engage full time FWD and drive a few figure of eights once a week in the Tescos carpark, gets you a few funny looks but who cares, its another Jeep thing!


What's the theory behind that then, and why not just leave it in Full-Time FWD all the time?  :-k
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Post by: Anonymous on August 31, 2006, 06:17:52 PM
Why would putting it in 4wd do anything extra for the rear diff?

Figure 8s for distributing the fluid round the diff if it's not been offroad for ages, yep, makes sense. Saying that, I'd have thought most roundabouts would do this during normal driving.

Much more fun way is:

Leave in 2wd.
Find a grass verge.
put two wheels on the verge.

FLOOR IT :)

all on private land of course

EE :twisted:
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Post by: pikey on August 31, 2006, 06:25:37 PM
thanks 4 the info its a 4ltr 1993 cheokee i got it all back 2gether took me 3 hours getting the shims in wos the worst bit dont understand about the preload ? seems 2 go alright with no wierd noises ,only did 5 mile though . the diff wos just warm .
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Post by: isle of man on August 31, 2006, 06:28:50 PM
Quote from: "pikey"
thanks 4 the info its a 4ltr 1993 cheokee i got it all back 2gether took me 3 hours getting the shims in wos the worst bit dont understand about the preload ? seems 2 go alright with no wierd noises ,only did 5 mile though . the diff wos just warm .


warm is acceptable.......pikey you did put the lsd additive in?????????


peter henry
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Post by: pikey on August 31, 2006, 06:32:05 PM
er wots the additive ,i put some additives in my mondeo diesel tank  :lol:
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Post by: isle of man on August 31, 2006, 06:35:39 PM
Quote from: "pikey"
er wots the additive ,i put some additives in my mondeo diesel tank  :lol:


yes but this is not red.............
will get you the part# wait wile i find it or dr mike will supply it.

peter henry
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on August 31, 2006, 06:36:36 PM
Go to the Jeep dealer and say "I'd like some friction modifier for my limited slip differential". He will give you a small bottle and relieve you of about a fiver. Put in the specified amount (a 5% mix if I remember right)Go do it.....now!
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Post by: Mike Pavelin on August 31, 2006, 06:38:54 PM
The diff carrier bearings are preloaded by adding shims that are thick enough that the diff cannot be installed easily without stretching the diff housing to a maximum of 0.5mm with a special tool. This means that with the diff installed and the tool removed, the elasticity of the diff housing squeezes on the carrier bearings giving the required preload. If you can slip the diff, bearings and shim assembly into the housing with no resistance the carrier bearings are worn and the preload has been lost.
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Post by: isle of man on August 31, 2006, 06:44:18 PM
Quote from: "tim_aka_tim"
Go to the Jeep dealer and say "I'd like some friction modifier for my limited slip differential". He will give you a small bottle and relieve you of about a fiver. Put in the specified amount (a 5% mix if I remember right)Go do it.....now!


yes and it looks like this both ways around........
(http://http://i6.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/1f/e4/38_1.JPG)


peter henry
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Post by: pikey on August 31, 2006, 08:00:44 PM
mine did have shimes each end of the carrier had 2 force them in with a wooden malet worked a treat . ill go to rydales tommrow and get some additive thanks
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Post by: Mike Pavelin on August 31, 2006, 10:41:05 PM
Should be ok if it was a tight fit.
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on August 31, 2006, 10:57:56 PM
Quote from: "pikey"
mine did have shimes each end of the carrier had 2 force them in with a wooden malet worked a treat . ill go to rydales tommrow and get some additive thanks


Here's a most useful guide (http://http://www.jeepclub.co.uk/features.cfm?id=25), provided by the good doctor, should you want to know how much oil is in your diff so you can add the required 2-5%.
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Post by: pikey on September 01, 2006, 10:21:43 AM
thank u all 4 info most help full got the additive 4.86 all in
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Post by: isle of man on September 01, 2006, 10:47:06 AM
Quote from: "pikey"
thank u all 4 info most help full got the additive 4.86 all in


great............now would be a good time to go to the introductions part of the board and tell us about you and your cherokee.


peter henry
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Post by: pikey on September 01, 2006, 01:19:13 PM
well put the additive in and took it for a run {35 miles} when got back i grabed the diff she wos hot so took the plug out to smell the oil stinks again .i think its another axle so got to look for another cheap 1 . wanted it done 4 next weekend wos going to go to the cheapfest its only 20 mile from me oh well ....
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Post by: Anonymous on September 01, 2006, 02:13:47 PM
ermm..........who might have one or 2 of them lying around????? :wink:
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Post by: pikey on September 01, 2006, 02:18:32 PM
ok ill hang on thanks
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Post by: eastryjeep on September 01, 2006, 02:20:33 PM
Even new gear oil often smells ripe, so don't panic quite yet.
When you consider the fact that you have a pre-loaded frition clutch in an LSD it's bound to heat up whenever the plates are moving relative to one another, the question is rather, "Is it outside manufacturers' acceptable limits".
Don't forget that all the heat generated within the diff is conducted away via the oil to the diff housing which in turn is mostly cooled by convection.
Why not phone the boys at Lighthouse Jeep (01953 681237) and ask them for a rule of thumb guide as to what is acceptable. Maybe even stick a cooking thermometer in the filler hole and get a reading of the oil temp and then check the max operating temp for the oil on the net, or just 'phone the technical sales department of an oil manufacturer, they know what their own as well as their competitions' products can do.
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Post by: JamesH on September 01, 2006, 06:05:01 PM
:imwitstupid:

Newly built or re-built diffs get pretty hot while breaking in and a few people have been concerned by it. I think there are some threads about it on here or the other jeep forums.
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Post by: MK1 on September 01, 2006, 06:08:17 PM
Unless he's dossing about on holiday again, Mik will be able to help with this one!
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Post by: Anonymous on September 01, 2006, 08:45:58 PM
Mine said to stop every 15 miles and allow it to cool for the first 100 miles....
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Post by: pikey on September 04, 2006, 09:41:37 AM
well changed axle yesterday this 1 turns with no hassle took 4 hours to change so easy it wos nothing like the manual said so cheapfest here we come thanks for all the help mike and c u sat