Birty Dastards Jeep Club

Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: mack on October 12, 2007, 11:25:17 AM

Title: TD cylinder heads?
Post by: mack on October 12, 2007, 11:25:17 AM
Hi guys,

I have a 2000 (w reg) Cherokee 2.5 TD, with two cracked cylinder heads.

I need to replace the heads and gasket set, is the best place to get these from VM Diesel Specialist, or can anyone recommend another supplier?

Also am I best to get 2 new heads, or second hand 'refurbished' ones at half the price?

Any help appreciated.


p.s at last I'm getting round to fixing this, it's been over a year off the road.  :oops:
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Post by: greggmo on October 12, 2007, 11:18:02 PM
firstly you only have one cylinder head. the gasket is easy to get but unless you are handy with the spanners i wouldn't suggest doing it your self.
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Post by: Mike Pavelin on October 13, 2007, 08:19:35 AM
He has four heads and one head gasket.
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Post by: MK1 on October 13, 2007, 09:05:13 AM
Or he might have four heads with four seperate gaskets. They're bloody expensive gaskets too!
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Post by: Bubba on October 13, 2007, 09:56:32 AM
refurbished should be ok if cost is an issue not sure if lighthouse stocks all that you need but i would check out marine diesel companies as well as vm company's if it were me and you have got four gaskets i would change them all and know that they all ok if you only got one gasket then you will have to remove all the heads anyway sometimes but only sometimes you can buy a whole second hand engine for less than the cost of new parts buy unless you are savvy it could be a gamble
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Post by: monkeybiz on October 13, 2007, 11:56:45 AM
or just drop in a v8
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Post by: JamesH on October 13, 2007, 01:10:11 PM
Some members on JeepClub have successfully fixed their head problems with parts from the VM Diesel Specialist company. As I understood it they went for new heads (theirs were cracked) and all new gasket and other parts.

Just out of interest, what mileage did the probblems occur at??

If you need links or more info I can possibly dig some out (or search on JeepClub if you are a member).

James
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Post by: mikeh on October 13, 2007, 04:07:56 PM
Don't forget there are other motors with VM diesels in them e.g. Alfa's, Rover 825's and Rangies so heads are about in scrappys if you know what your looking for. I did one a few years back which cracked no2 head and used an Alfa Gasket set with a head from a tat yard which I had tested at a local shop.

Oh and depending on what the problem is you may be able to get the head repaired so it's alwayd worth getting it checked by a reputable engine shop as it could save you a few quid 8)
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Post by: Dave69 on October 13, 2007, 06:56:32 PM
first talk to George at the VM specialist. He is a fountain of knowlege and wont give you BS. yes you can get stuff from other places but you can pay more for it as well and the knowlege base isn't that good.
 if two heads are cracked then just replace them for new ones, you can reconditon them but they might end up still terminal after repair due to heat stresses etc during the repair process.
 for the hassle involved and if you are doing it yourself take all four heads off and replace with a one piece head gasket to save on any problems at a later date. Swap the valve stem seals as well as they should come with the gasket kit.
 As for the engine going in other cars yes that is correct but the blocks are different. the rover version wil not fit into the jeep without new engine mounts being made so dont fall into the trap that one engine fits all.
 allow a weekend for the swap if it's the first time, once you have done it, the head gasket repair can be done in 4 hours. I cut corners on mine thinking i could get away with changing only the failed bits, if it's off renew all the gaskets and seals while your at it.
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Post by: mikeh on October 13, 2007, 08:01:34 PM
Quote from: "Dave69"
As for the engine going in other cars yes that is correct but the blocks are different. the rover version wil not fit into the jeep without new engine mounts being made so dont fall into the trap that one engine fits all.
 allow a weekend for the swap if it's the first time, once you have done it, the head gasket repair can be done in 4 hours. I cut corners on mine thinking i could get away with changing only the failed bits, if it's off renew all the gaskets and seals while your at it.


I wasn't meaning an engine swap just a source for heads ;)
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Post by: greggmo on October 13, 2007, 11:44:49 PM
so i could buy four seperate heads for a four popper then could i?????? the only motor with two heads is a v in my book. if ya go to a car yard and ask em for 4 heads you will have three too many... or am i a LIAR? :roll:
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Post by: MK1 on October 14, 2007, 09:58:08 AM
These VM diesels and a lot of lorry/plant diesel engines have a seperate self contained head on each cylinder. Just ask the big man.

You're not a liar, just not up on crappy VM diesels!!!
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Post by: Mike Pavelin on October 14, 2007, 10:29:48 AM
The pre '97 XJs had 4 heads and 4 head gaskets. The later ones still had 4 heads but had one head gasket. You can use the single gasket on the earlier engines but IIRC youi have to replace the end plates for the later ones or machine the originals.
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Post by: mikeh on October 14, 2007, 12:06:03 PM
Quote from: "greggmo"
so i could buy four seperate heads for a four popper then could i?????? the only motor with two heads is a v in my book. if ya go to a car yard and ask em for 4 heads you will have three too many... or am i a LIAR? :butthead: :wink:
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Post by: Dave69 on October 14, 2007, 02:14:18 PM
no indication for you to buy a new engine, and far from it. Just making you aware that they all may be the 2.5td vm and on paper and they're all the same as you get told by some people out there but realistically they are different in small ways so you could go and buy something that you find is not suitable.

They're two types of head you have to be aware of.

the jeep type has the glow plugs comming out of the top and the plugs are connected individually with a common electrical feed. The rover and possibly others have the glow plugs on the side of the head and fed by a common "bus" bar like on most other diesel engines. the downside of this is that if No.1 glow plug fails it's either injector pump swap or head off.

Ask where the glow plugs are, the jeep have them at the top of the head (about 45 degrees from the side) and the other type have them comming out at the base of the head (horizontal)
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Post by: Bubba on October 14, 2007, 05:50:13 PM
yup separate heads is a common thing a lot of six cylinder diesels used to have two heads one per 3 cylinders and i think it was Evan done with 3 heads to on a handful of engines
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Post by: Mike Pavelin on October 14, 2007, 06:28:02 PM
Quote from: "Dave69"
no indication for you to buy a new engine, and far from it. Just making you aware that they all may be the 2.5td vm and on paper and they're all the same as you get told by some people out there but realistically they are different in small ways so you could go and buy something that you find is not suitable.

They're two types of head you have to be aware of.

the jeep type has the glow plugs comming out of the top and the plugs are connected individually with a common electrical feed. The rover and possibly others have the glow plugs on the side of the head and fed by a common "bus" bar like on most other diesel engines. the downside of this is that if No.1 glow plug fails it's either injector pump swap or head off.

Ask where the glow plugs are, the jeep have them at the top of the head (about 45 degrees from the side) and the other type have them comming out at the base of the head (horizontal)


Not true. Jeeps up to '96 had heads with the glow plugs in the side (with no.1 virtually impossible to get at behind the fuel pump) '97 on had them in the top as described. However, the late heads are not interchangable with the early ones unless you fit a set of 4 along with the right end plates and head gasket.
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Post by: mack on October 15, 2007, 09:04:07 AM
Quote from: "Dave69"
first talk to George at the VM specialist. He is a fountain of knowlege and wont give you BS. yes you can get stuff from other places but you can pay more for it as well and the knowlege base isn't that good.
 if two heads are cracked then just replace them for new ones, you can reconditon them but they might end up still terminal after repair due to heat stresses etc during the repair process.
 for the hassle involved and if you are doing it yourself take all four heads off and replace with a one piece head gasket to save on any problems at a later date. Swap the valve stem seals as well as they should come with the gasket kit.


Thanks for all the replies.

Dave, I spoke to sombody knowlegable at VM Specialist, so presumably George, and to the mechanic who'll be doing the work, and I will be getting two new heads to replace the cracked ones, and a new head gasket and other gasket kit from VM. I've had a hunt around and there are other sources for the gaskets, (ebay being one) but I'd feel better getting the bits together from someone reputable. So VM it is.

Hopefully back on the road soon.

 8)
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Post by: Groove Rider on October 19, 2007, 08:54:39 AM
What is the problem with the diesel heads?

Is their anyway to stop this problem occuring? ..........
ie change the radiator or renew the gaskets before there is a problem????
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Post by: Mike Pavelin on October 19, 2007, 09:50:07 AM
They get stress cracks between the combustion chamber and the water jacket. The best cure is to buy a Jeep with a proper petrol engine, but keeping the cooling system in good shape won't do any harm. The pre '96 ones were programmed to self destruct at 60001 miles ('cos they had a 60 000 mile warranty) but the later ones were a bit more durable.
Title: Re: TD cylinder heads?
Post by: brian reid on February 01, 2010, 09:29:37 PM
i always think that when the miles start mounting up 3 or 4 oils changes a year,and keeping an eye on you engine temp and coolant levels,i bet a lot of nacked heads are from engines that have over cooked due to low coolant level and low or rubbish oil.

we are at 148k with original heads,though the engine did have a full strip down at around 80k,or just sheer luck.

regards