Birty Dastards Jeep Club

Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: silly lily on January 04, 2008, 07:53:35 PM

Title: Grand Q: do I want to buy this Jeep!
Post by: silly lily on January 04, 2008, 07:53:35 PM: Hi guys!
So here it is: Jeep Cherokee, Orvis, 4L, 73000 miles, 1999. Lpg converted, very good looking. £3999 asking. upgraded infinity spec radio, cd changer, casette player, speakers and amp
Never offroaded.
Some fragments from seller's emails:
'The car is absolutely fine, the only small issue with it is that the front radio speakers have stopped working. I have tried changing both the radio unit in the dash and the amplifier under the back seat, but both are fine, so I think a plug has come unplugged in the wiring or something simple.'

' the system I had fitted was the sequential system, not the cheap one most people fit, there is almost no loss of performance or economy, ( I can't tell when it switches over). The lpg tank gives a range of approx 190 miles. . So to fill up at a garage it's around £28 to fill up from empty'

The tank doesn't hang too much below the original petrol tank level and is still above the level of the axle, so shouldn't
reduce the ground clearance. It is also protected by a heavy duty skid plate.
The suspension on this jeep does sit level as it has extended spring hangers brought over specifically from America to
compensate for the weight of the tank and give a level stance.'

Would you look at it, and how much would you pay?
Many thanks, appreciate your views.
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Post by: Ric Jacques on January 04, 2008, 08:15:33 PM: From your description alone I'd buy it........

Got any pics?
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Post by: silly lily on January 04, 2008, 08:30:25 PM: Got some pictures, let me see if I can put them here:(http://http://birtydastardsjeepclub.com/forum/userpix/1181_f679_1_1.jpg)

Also:

(http://http://birtydastardsjeepclub.com/forum/userpix/1181_f790_1_1.jpg)

Looks clean enough to me. Don't like the speakers issue though.
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Post by: Mort on January 04, 2008, 08:44:19 PM: Looks good, but way overpriced in my opinion. I'd have put the value in the region of £2000 - £2500. As nice as XJs are (we've just sold ours) the fact is that the bottom has dropped out of the XJ market recently, and you'll get a hell of a lot of XJ for your money.

Obviously you'll pay what it's worth to you, but I'd check out the book price first, and then start negotiating slightly above that. Get it thoroughly checked out too - you could save yourself £££s in the future - and make sure there's a certificate for the LPG installation.
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Post by: Mort on January 04, 2008, 08:59:43 PM: Just did a check on Parkers http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/used-pric ... 61&issue=0 (http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/used-prices/Valuation.aspx?deriv=16177&plate=61&issue=0) - seems I was spot-on with the price :lol:
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Post by: greggmo on January 04, 2008, 09:03:50 PM: :lol:
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Post by: silly lily on January 04, 2008, 09:07:24 PM: Quote from: "Mort"
Just did a check on Parkers http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/used-pric ... 61&issue=0 (http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/used-prices/Valuation.aspx?deriv=16177&plate=61&issue=0) - seems I was spot-on with the price :lol:

Indeed, I checked it out myself just now... thank you for your time. Still, it's only an asking price, all come down in the end if they want to sell.
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on January 04, 2008, 09:34:07 PM: Looks tidy, but then those photos are nearly 6 years old. I'd ask for some recent ones. Also, get a side on shot, those springs look too low to me from that shot.

I wouldn't take his word about the radio. If the amp is under the back seat like on my old Grand, then there are lots of wires all over the car, but to be honest, connectors do NOT just come loose, they have one way clips on them. It probably is the radio or amp, so maybe budget for a new one, but bear in mind that a new head unit without the separate amp will potentially need all new speaker wiring.
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Post by: Mike Pavelin on January 04, 2008, 09:51:56 PM: Too dear by far.
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Post by: keeko on January 04, 2008, 10:03:12 PM: I looked at that jeep as well as i`m looking for one. Have you seen the size of Portacabin/caravan parked next to it?
Its obviously been hauling that around since hes had it. Thats not to say it`s a bad car, just makes me wonder. Looks straight enough though.(back in 2003) unless his camera settings are off.
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on January 04, 2008, 10:17:35 PM: BTW, the official currency of Birty's is the McVities Jaffa Cake. Offer him 6 packs. If he argues, sweeten him up with 3½ slices of luncheon meat and a small birty dastards sticker.

Seriously though, his asking price isn't just out of the ballpark, it's in another city. The stereo problem is gonna take time/money or both to fix.
Most people think that spending 2 grand to upgrade a vehicle makes it worth 2 grand extra.
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Post by: silly lily on January 04, 2008, 10:35:18 PM: Quote from: "tim_aka_tim"
Looks tidy, but then those photos are nearly 6 years old. I'd ask for some recent ones. Also, get a side on shot, those springs look too low to me from that shot.

Seems to be issue with camera, as I've asked for recent pictures of interior and so on, and he emailed them next day, the same old date on them. Sound problem does not sound good though.
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Post by: silly lily on January 04, 2008, 10:38:00 PM: Quote from: "tim_aka_tim"
BTW, the official currency of Birty's is the McVities Jaffa Cake. Offer him 6 packs. If he argues, sweeten him up with 3½ slices of luncheon meat and a small birty dastards sticker.

Seriously though, his asking price isn't just out of the ballpark, it's in another city. The stereo problem is gonna take time/money or both to fix.
Most people think that spending 2 grand to upgrade a vehicle makes it worth 2 grand extra.

Yes, I know it's far too expensive... they all are on the asking price. He may also argue that the smart LPG conversion adds value... does it?
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Post by: Mort on January 04, 2008, 10:44:09 PM: Quote from: "silly lily"
He may also argue that the smart LPG conversion adds value... does it?
Not much. He's already had his value out of it by running it for several years on LPG - and unless he has the all-important installation certificate, then run away.
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on January 04, 2008, 10:46:01 PM: Quote from: "silly lily"
He may also argue that the smart LPG conversion adds value... does it?

Yes, but his 2 grand LPG system is used too. It's worth probably a few hundred extra. Knock off the cost of a new stereo though. If he won't budge, walk away and eat the Jaffa cakes yourself.

There's always another deal around the corner.
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Post by: silly lily on January 04, 2008, 11:13:32 PM: No, I wouldn't buy it unless he agreed to fix the stereo... I wanto buy a jeep that works on all fronts and doesn't need things doing. I'm not into that type of thing at all. I believe the conversion certificate is there.
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Post by: silly lily on January 05, 2008, 10:40:21 AM: Would also consider a Grand Cherokee of same age... is it a better car than the Cherokee generally? Which would you choose as everyday car and offroad use now and then?
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Post by: Dave69 on January 05, 2008, 04:01:14 PM: one thing spring extenders on the back might be another cheap way to hide sagging rear springs.
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Post by: xjlee on January 05, 2008, 05:08:45 PM: I used to fit LPG systems years ago and the sequential system is very good and smoother than a single point system. But be warned these systems can be very tempremental if they're not set up properly or if any of the wires haven't be soldered correctly. I think those rear springs look tired too but its a haggling point i suppose, if you go to look at it drive it for a while and see how it behaves on gas.....
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Post by: silly lily on January 05, 2008, 11:52:25 PM: I see... is this sag problem common to all Cherokees and how hard would it be to find one without? Does it affect the GC also?
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on January 06, 2008, 12:11:08 AM: It affects all XJ Cherokees, yes. The rear springs on the XJ are leaves. On the KJ Cherokee (new shape) and on all Grand Cherokees, they use coil springs all round, which don't suffer from the problem.

With XJs being out of production for seven or so years now, even the newest ones should be on at least their second set of rear springs.
It's perfectly normal and an easy fix. Expect to fork out between 200 and 250 for a set of diesel spec springs which will negate the problem somewhat (obviously fitting will be extra). The XJ diesel has heavy duty rear springs.

Many Birty's with XJs run lift kits, so it's not a problem.
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Post by: silly lily on January 06, 2008, 10:18:04 AM: Thanks Tim, thought so... will keep looking and will certainly give you a shout since I see you live close by!
Should I consider a GC too? Is it a better vehicle or much bigger than the Cherokee?
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Post by: Dave69 on January 06, 2008, 10:41:28 AM: the leaf springs arent that bad to change just be prepared to soak the bolts with penetrating fluid for a couple of weeks prior to starting the swap. it is possible to do them in one day if everyting goes nice and easily and no siezed bolts. Dont set your heart on the first one as there are still a few out there. i looked at a few but mine was bought on price as it basically cost me next to nothing.
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on January 06, 2008, 12:58:32 PM: Quote from: "silly lily"
Should I consider a GC too? Is it a better vehicle or much bigger than the Cherokee?

I'd consider a ZJ ( upto 1998 ) Grand, yes. A bit more expensive, but better equipped too. I can't honestly recommend the WJ (1999-2004) Grand, as I've owned one and they're trouble.

In common with all Jeeps, the grand is big on the outside and small on the inside. It's slightly bigger internally and taller too.
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Post by: xjlee on January 06, 2008, 01:18:42 PM: Yea the zj cherokee's are better in a way but just depends what you want out of it? Rear leafs aren't too bad at all to do, i can do them in less than 2 hours now! 8)
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Post by: silly lily on January 06, 2008, 01:43:53 PM: Oh, excellent! Well, I need my jeep for 4 things: everyday car (work and accom for a new born), off-roading now and then, taking mountain bikes up places, travel abroad. So, that's what it is for. So must be reliable and true off-roader. So I'll look at the GC also, indeed up to 1998 was in my mind also.
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Post by: xjlee on January 06, 2008, 01:53:53 PM: Im not sure but if you go for one thats been gas converted i think they have a slightly bigger tank too, but they are permanent 4wd and are slighly heavier. An 'Orvis' spec grand is very nice tho! 8) But an xj is much more car-like to drive and easier to manouver....
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Post by: silly lily on January 06, 2008, 02:08:51 PM: Ah, you see... a jeep driving like a car and being manoubrable actually matters in my book. I hate cumbersome vehicles. Which is the reason for which I wouldn't buy a Mitsubishi Shogun V6, 5door - they're huge!!!
So Cherokee sounds like the better choice... I still have to drive one though!
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Post by: Dave69 on January 06, 2008, 05:17:03 PM: mines got the diesel spring upgrade (from lighthouse) nice and firm and still gives a good ride, can be a bit bumpy over speed humps LOL
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Post by: silly lily on January 22, 2008, 07:57:44 PM: Quote from: "tim_aka_tim"
I can't honestly recommend the WJ (1999-2004) Grand, as I've owned one and they're trouble.

Still looking for a GC. What is wrong with 1999-2004 GC, please? Because there'sre pleanty of those about on LPG, which is what I need.
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Post by: Dave69 on January 22, 2008, 08:17:51 PM: if they are at the "right price" i.e cheap then there is nothng wrong. maybe people just get fed up filling it up more than their friends cars jeeps whatever. still look for the same stuff, condition service history crash damage off road damge rust etc
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Post by: tartanzj on January 25, 2008, 12:56:08 PM: I've got a GC ZJ with the 2.5 diesel and haven't had any issues with it to speak of. I am 6'5" and when I bought the jeep I had been originally looking at the XJ but found the lack of legroom my main problem. The ZJ may only be marginally better in legroom but it was enough to make the difference. At that time LPG conversions were expensive and a lot of insurance companies were vague when asked if insurance would be a problem so my choice was driven to the diesel.

If you can find a tidy late model ZJ on LPG then I would recommend it. That wee bit extra comfort helps on a long drive.
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Post by: silly lily on January 25, 2008, 05:19:21 PM: Quote from: "tartanzj"

If you can find a tidy late model ZJ on LPG then I would recommend it. That wee bit extra comfort helps on a long drive.

Ok, got your point... what mileage have you got, or to put it differently, what's good mileage to buy for this vehicle? I.e would 85,000 miles be too much for one who doesn't want to have to fix things on it?
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Post by: tartanzj on January 26, 2008, 08:46:34 PM: 85K on a 4L engine is nothing if its been looked after.

I bought mine with 26K on the clock and am now at about 108K with the diesel and only had to change plugs, front hub, anti-roll bushes, 2x brake lines outwith the standard service items. The 4L is supposed to be pretty bomb proof if serviced regular so I reckon its down to suspension and bodywork condition. I've got a couple of rust spots (front bonnet lip and tailgate gutter) but nothing structural and you won't find a wetter part of the country than up here. :cry: Plus my local council are pretty heavy with the salt in winter so you should be even safer finding a solid one down your way. Most suspension components are cheap enough and if you can do the work yourself or have someone happy to do it for a couple of quid then your sorted.

I think you'll struggle now to find a ZJ still with a full dealer service due to age but from my experience it doesn't go for much anyway. 8)
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Post by: Trackbikes on January 27, 2008, 12:55:22 PM: This is an interesting thread...

let me see if I got this right.

XJ = cherokee
ZJ= grand cherokee

The grand cherokee is more comfortable for long journeys but the Cherokee handles more like a normal car.

Cherokee's are better off road than Grand cherokee's?

The overall view is that a grand cherokee is better before 99.

Did i get all that correct?

I am personally looking for a 96/97/98 cherokee or Grand cherokee I've been bidding on ebay for the past few days and missed a couple by a few quid (£7 in the last second.. for one of them)

At the moment I am setting a price limit of £950 for a GC and about £800 for a cherokee but I'll probably up that by £500-£1000 in feb and look for something slightly better.
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Post by: tartanzj on January 28, 2008, 12:16:30 PM: Quote from: "Trackbikes"
This is an interesting thread...

let me see if I got this right.

XJ = cherokee
ZJ= grand cherokee

The grand cherokee is more comfortable for long journeys but the Cherokee handles more like a normal car.

Cherokee's are better off road than Grand cherokee's?

The overall view is that a grand cherokee is better before 99.

Did i get all that correct?

I am personally looking for a 96/97/98 cherokee or Grand cherokee I've been bidding on ebay for the past few days and missed a couple by a few quid (£7 in the last second.. for one of them)

At the moment I am setting a price limit of £950 for a GC and about £800 for a cherokee but I'll probably up that by £500-£1000 in feb and look for something slightly better.

Like most 4x4 vehicles now the emphasis is aimed more towards on road comfort rather than off-road ability so generally the older models are better for use off-road compared to the current breed of 4x4

I personally don't think there is much in it when it comes down to off-road ability between a XJ and a ZJ. Both probably have slight stengths in one area and weaknesses in another.

Driver ability and tyre selection will have more bearing when off-road.