Birty Dastards Jeep Club

Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: dxmedia on November 19, 2008, 09:51:13 AM

Title: Lift kit which doesn't cost an arm and a child
Post by: dxmedia on November 19, 2008, 09:51:13 AM: I'm looking at importing a kit from the states (probably the RE) to give the ZJ about 4 1/2 inch lift (I say about since it might go up a little).

$650 dollars give or take for the kit, $400 for postage Which works out in real money to about £750 <>

Are there any companies in Britain who do kits? I've seen LA superripofmerchants do a 1/2 lift for about £3000 which is just silly, but anyone who does closer to the £400 of the RE kit?

That's shocks, springs, control arms, track bars, brakets, pretty much everything.
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Post by: Jeepthang on November 19, 2008, 11:58:56 AM: Don't forget that the RE kit doesn't include shocks so you'll have to add those on too. And if you are going upto 4.5" you'll probably need an SYE and CV driveshaft to get rid of those vibes.

$650 seems very cheap for an RE kit! Who has quoted you that figure? My RE 4.5" kit cost around $1,250 before the shocks, SYE and CV were added.

RE do great lift kits but the only guy that I know who imports them into the UK is Steve Fagioli at www.fte.co.uk (http://www.fte.co.uk).

For other makes you could try Specialist Leisure at www.specialist-leisure.co.uk (http://www.specialist-leisure.co.uk).
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Post by: Bishops Finger on November 19, 2008, 12:43:51 PM: Try Llama 4x4 as well
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Post by: dxmedia on November 19, 2008, 01:19:22 PM: Quote from: "Bishops Finger"
Try Llama 4x4 as well

Just come off the phone to David at llama - sound guy. Looks like he's got a sale 8-)
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Post by: dxmedia on November 19, 2008, 01:23:36 PM: Quote from: "Jeepthang"
Don't forget that the RE kit doesn't include shocks so you'll have to add those on too. And if you are going upto 4.5" you'll probably need an SYE and CV driveshaft to get rid of those vibes.

$650 seems very cheap for an RE kit! Who has quoted you that figure? My RE 4.5" kit cost around $1,250 before the shocks, SYE and CV were added.

RE do great lift kits but the only guy that I know who imports them into the UK is Steve Fagioli at www.fte.co.uk (http://www.fte.co.uk).

For other makes you could try Specialist Leisure at www.specialist-leisure.co.uk (http://www.specialist-leisure.co.uk).

My bad, meant rough country.

I've spoken with a few people who are just touching 6" with no drive line issues, that's something I'm going to look at if it happens. The rough country kit comes with adjustable control arms so I can play with the caster to sort a lot of it, and a transfer case drop can then be added if there is anything still causing issues.

Would be nice to get the zj off the ground though, it looks like a bit of a low rider at the moment
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Post by: scrw on November 19, 2008, 02:03:09 PM: You taking note Stew!
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Post by: xjlee on November 19, 2008, 03:59:30 PM: My lift kit come from David @ Llama and i can recommend the rough country stuff, and his after sales care is excellent 8-)
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Post by: dxmedia on November 19, 2008, 06:40:01 PM: Thanks for that, after talking to him he seems really clued up, good to hear that it's not just talk and then sod it all off once money has changed hands.

I've a bit of a plan hatching using spacers and coils, with longer shocks. Since the top of the coils can't compress anyway due to the bump stops, have the coils lower through spacers and then try and work out some dislocation cones using longer shocks. Don't know if that make sence but I've kinda got a picture in my head.

As a matter of interest has anyone on here mounted a rear winch? Front one I was going to hack a winch mounting plate off the front of the chassis rails and cut the bumper to suit, but not sure about the back end yet
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Post by: Dave69 on November 19, 2008, 07:54:34 PM: Quote from: "dxmedia"

I've spoken with a few people who are just touching 6" with no drive line issues,

every jeep is different when it comes to lifting, just because no-one else has any issues remember that might not apply to you. What you might have with 6" is a good looking road driver but when you go off road and articulate the prop drops out of the transfer box.

one option that is popular with big lifts is fitting the 8.8 axle out of the ford explorer, this has disc brakes and the same wheel bolt pattern and only slightly narrower than the xj's dana 35. Altering the output shaft of the transfer box to fit the R.E ahck and tap the gives you the option of fitting a front xj drive shaft (not done this but read alot on it on NAXJA and pirate 4x4). Unfortunately this axle isn't a bolt on affair
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Post by: dxmedia on November 19, 2008, 07:58:41 PM: I'm not to fussed about height, as long as I can get my tyres under the arches on compression. anything after that is false economy since the low spots are going to be the diffs anyway.
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Post by: Panic mechanic! on November 19, 2008, 08:22:35 PM: maybe its just me but i doubt there is anything here in the UK that would justify having a 6" lift. Unless you are after a trailer queen
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Post by: isle of man on November 19, 2008, 08:39:05 PM: Quote from: "Panic mechanic!"
maybe its just me but i doubt there is anything here in the UK that would justify having a 6" lift. Unless you are after a trailer queen

that's only because you have a 30" inside leg SHORT ARSE!!!!!
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Post by: Dave69 on November 19, 2008, 09:42:29 PM: Quote from: "Panic mechanic!"
maybe its just me but i doubt there is anything here in the UK that would justify having a 6" lift. Unless you are after a trailer queen

only if you want to fit 35's with hardly any trimming, but then you would need to replace the axles for something stronger
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Post by: wazza on November 19, 2008, 10:41:06 PM: TJ front coils give the rear of a ZJ 3 inchs of lift
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Post by: Bishops Finger on November 19, 2008, 11:18:14 PM: Interesting...
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Post by: dxmedia on November 20, 2008, 07:31:30 AM: Quote from: "Panic mechanic!"
maybe its just me but i doubt there is anything here in the UK that would justify having a 6" lift. Unless you are after a trailer queen

Can't really agree with that, my old MU was on 7" and would catch, a mates lwb frontera is on 11" (although that does clear most stuff) Depends if you're driving across fields or pay and play / playing on rock...
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Post by: Panic mechanic! on November 20, 2008, 10:57:21 AM: Quote from: "isle of man"
Quote from: "Panic mechanic!"
maybe its just me but i doubt there is anything here in the UK that would justify having a 6" lift. Unless you are after a trailer queen

that's only because you have a 30" inside leg SHORT ARSE!!!!!

what you doing measuring my inside leg ???(whats worse is your right!!!!!)

sorry what i was trying to say was that if you do a 6" lift you should really go with wider axles and wheel combination down to the fact you are making the vehicle unstable,also with a monocoque frame, you are putting a lot more stresses on the all the spot welds within the body, you could literally rip things apart....I may be wrong but thats the way I see it
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Post by: dxmedia on November 20, 2008, 11:04:38 AM: I know what your saying, but I've also been around trucks long enough to for people to be saying you can't do that even when standing next to said impossible thing
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Post by: Panic mechanic! on November 20, 2008, 12:24:58 PM: I have seen some terrible lifts done here in the UK, theres a few running round where someone has simply got another chassis and spaced it above the original and mounted everything to that and then welded rsj type material between them!
the other thing to remember is if you go that tall and get stuck, sometimes you will need another similar vehicle to get close to where you are,to retrieve you and it can also ruin challenges for other vehicles cos once you have gone into say a mud hole and dig yourself in, no one else has got a chance in hell of getting thru it! lol
I have been in some highly modified 4x4 and at teh end of the day if you don't get stuck you get bored instead and move on!
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Post by: dxmedia on November 20, 2008, 02:05:14 PM: LoL, I'm only planning on just over 4" anyway, enough to get the 33's under and I'll be happy
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Post by: tartanzj on November 24, 2008, 10:33:40 AM: You still might need to trim a little with 33's. I run 235/85 in the mud on a 4 1/2" lift and can still catch slightly at the front on full compression. I have a slight vibe from the rear axle on hard acceleration but I am happy to live with it for now.
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Post by: dxmedia on December 10, 2008, 09:57:19 PM: Reet, the monterey has gone and I'm about ready to put an order in with llama for some bits.

I 'think' I'm going for >

Rough country 4" lift kit, which is adjustable control arms top and bottom for the arse end, lower adjustables for the front, springs, shocks, hardware...

With the adjustable control arms in the back I don't need to worry about a transfer case drop for the rear prop (touch wood) due to adjusting the castor back into place.

Also a set of 2" coil spacers (just over an inch if I can get them) which I'll run down on a lathe to about 30 - 35mm, fit a transfer case drop and touch wood just over 5" of lift. Fix the coil spacers and springs in place and look at dislocation cones all round (extended brake lines and over length gas shocks in the order, hence using the spacers to move the initial points of compression down)

Oh bin the rear anti roll, and make a set of disconnects up for the front.

I know I'm missing or forgetting something (nothing is ever right first time), so does this all sound plausable?

If the prop causes too many vibrations, I'll have to get a custom one made :(
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on December 10, 2008, 10:00:29 PM: Don't spoil a good job by using coil spacers.
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Post by: dxmedia on December 10, 2008, 10:04:56 PM: Quote from: "tim_aka_tim"
Don't spoil a good job by using coil spacers.

The coil spacers aren't for suspension travel, there are going to be used for lowering the point of maximum compression so lowing the bump stops if that makes sence? I'm planning on the longest shocks which I can possibly get so dislocation comes into play, a poor mans body lift so to speak :S

Or this a bad idea?
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on December 10, 2008, 10:12:25 PM: Never heard of anyone using dislocation on a Jeep. Having the springs thuding into the top of the wheel well doesn't sound like a good idea. The top of the wheel well is a week point ona a Jeep - just try jumping one
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Post by: dxmedia on December 10, 2008, 10:13:50 PM: Other way around. Fix the spacers and the tops of the coils to teh top end and let the dislocation take place on the axle
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Post by: dxmedia on December 10, 2008, 10:14:47 PM: oh and keep this up please :shock:
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Post by: dxmedia on December 10, 2008, 10:54:39 PM: no more takers

Call to david tommorrow by the look of it...
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Post by: tartanzj on December 15, 2008, 03:35:40 PM: Remember that the front adj trackbar that comes with an import kit is no use for RHD jeeps. You'll need to make a new one up yourself. I managed to use the JKS rear adj trackbar when I did the lift but I don't know if that's the same for all manufacturers. Some kits will have a bracket to alter the original trackbar and I suspect those would be LHD specific too.
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Post by: dxmedia on December 22, 2008, 09:30:01 PM: Picking up a 4" rough country kit with 2" coil spacers and +6" gas shocks tomorrow morning of David 8-)
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Post by: Bishops Finger on December 22, 2008, 10:12:23 PM: Thnats quick delivery...
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Post by: dxmedia on December 22, 2008, 10:25:46 PM: Quote from: "Bishops Finger"
Thnats quick delivery...

Yeah, there was a delay in an order being sent out, and I fluked calling him the same day pretty much, so ordered, next day it was off for shipping, and it arrived in Manc yesturday, so I'm picking up from the airport rather than Daivd taking it back to wales and posting it

I can't get over how great llama4x4 have been in the whole customer service side of things, can't recommend them enough (that includes speaking to David on his mobile on Sunday evening !)
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Post by: Bubba on December 22, 2008, 10:29:35 PM: cool thats good to hear
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Post by: Bishops Finger on December 22, 2008, 10:47:32 PM: Yup..good recommendation..
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Post by: dxmedia on January 14, 2009, 08:26:02 PM: Just a quick bit of a write up....

Put an order in with a welsh (http://http://www.llama4x4.co.uk) off roading company for one of these kits (well the older one with the bushed joints) (http://http://www.roughcountry.com/jeep_zj_4.html) pay some cash, and several days later there should be 4 boxes looking like

(http://http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/th__NV33083.jpg) (http://http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/?action=view&current=_NV33083.jpg)

sat on the kitchen table ;)

Next is to jack up the front of the truck and take the wheels off.

(http://http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/th__NV33088.jpg) (http://http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/?action=view&current=_NV33088.jpg)

(http://http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/th__NV33089.jpg) (http://http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/?action=view&current=_NV33089.jpg)

First things to remove are the lower radius arms and the springs, shocks, anti roll bar links, and the abs wire brakets

Here's the old coils and radius arm against the new. Guess which one is which ;)

Day 2

And in the cold light of day...

(http://http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/th__NV33095.jpg) (http://http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/?action=view&current=_NV33095.jpg)

What have I done :?

When lifting a coil truck the panhard rod needs to be removed so that the axle isn't pushed over. The rod then needs to be reconnected in the new position, so a hole needs to be drilled in the braket,

(http://http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/th__NV33096.jpg) (http://http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/?action=view&current=_NV33096.jpg)

and then the axle lifted on jacks till the rod lines up.

That's basically the front end done, and looks something like,

(http://http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/th__NV33097.jpg) (http://http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/?action=view&current=_NV33097.jpg)

a quick photo underneath to show clearance

(http://http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/th__NV33099.jpg) (http://http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/?action=view&current=_NV33099.jpg)

Now the rear.

(http://http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/th__NV33098.jpg) (http://http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/?action=view&current=_NV33098.jpg)

This time, the upper and lower radius arms, the springs, the shocks, the anti roll bar, the handbrake cable brakets and the panhard need removing.

(http://http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/th__NV33100.jpg) (http://http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/?action=view&current=_NV33100.jpg)

and the new parts compaired to the old.

(http://http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/th__NV33101.jpg) (http://http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/?action=view&current=_NV33101.jpg)

and the new parts then bolting into place.

(http://http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/th__NV33103.jpg) (http://http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/?action=view&current=_NV33103.jpg)

(notice the change in contrast in the pictures ;)

and there's a few minor issues like

(http://http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/th__NV33108.jpg) (http://http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb155/hornig-leyshon/chris/Grand_Cherokee/?action=view&current=_NV33108.jpg)

and the 29" tyres it's on....
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Post by: greggmo on January 14, 2009, 10:19:43 PM: cut those boots off they will kill the shoks. the dirt is kept in by them rather than kept out. trust me... bin em. lookin good though mate.
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Post by: Bishops Finger on January 14, 2009, 11:26:30 PM: Looks good...
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Post by: tartanzj on January 15, 2009, 03:51:06 PM: Well done :twisted:

Did you not have to extend the brake lines on the front?
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Post by: daggie on January 15, 2009, 04:36:09 PM: taken the rear anti off 8-)
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Post by: dxmedia on January 15, 2009, 05:40:35 PM: Quote from: "tartanzj"
Well done :twisted:

Did you not have to extend the brake lines on the front?

Thanks, I had the most problems with the front end, the rear went in first time with no issues :roll:

The brake lines havent been extended yet, but they will be very shortly. Very high on the list of things to do.

Quote from: "daggie"
taken the rear anti off

Yeah, drives fine without, it's sitting 6" over stock at the roof line so I drive accordingly. I might put it back on and have disconnects, I'll see if it makes any difference. Plenty of cars don't have anti roll bars at all, it's the uber parinoid sue everything USA which puts them on 4x4's and stops all independent articulation IMO.

Quote from: "daggie"
looking good

Thanks 8-)
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Post by: greggmo on January 15, 2009, 11:42:28 PM: get rid o them boots.
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Post by: dxmedia on January 16, 2009, 11:08:03 AM: Quote from: "greggmo"
get rid o them boots.

I prefer them on, stops the crap getting into the seals and killing the shocks, the rods were greased up before they went on and I've every intention of keeping them clean under there, they are only held on with jubilees.
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Post by: JamesH on January 16, 2009, 11:24:44 AM: Quote from: "greggmo"
get rid o them boots.

Looks a good start though - what tyres are you going for?
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Post by: MOCAJ on January 16, 2009, 01:39:05 PM: yep, chuck the boots, they just holds the crap in
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Post by: dxmedia on January 16, 2009, 02:00:56 PM: Quote from: "JamesH"
Quote from: "greggmo"
get rid o them boots.

Looks a good start though - what tyres are you going for?

I've a set of simex jungle trekkers which are going to be the playing tyres, and going to go shopping at the end of the month for some 235x85r16's for road and laning use - looking at insa's though - Paddock is just down the road from here and they do them for a good ish price.

I was going to sell the simex, but I'd really prefer to keep em, I'll make em fit !! There's another 2" to go onto the truck yet, but I need front upper adjustable radius arms first, and look into the front and back props. I might just make it another inch though.
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Post by: JamesH on January 16, 2009, 02:25:38 PM: If they're 34x11.5x16 Jungle trekkers I might be interested if you want to sell???
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Post by: dxmedia on January 16, 2009, 07:58:36 PM: 33 11.5 15's I'm afraid. They do make them in cool sizes.
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Post by: tartanzj on January 16, 2009, 08:42:41 PM: You might want to consider doing a re-gear with that size of tyre. I run 31" on the road and 32" for playing. When I can't be bothered changing the wheels back I really notice the difference, both in mpg's and in driveability. You can forget pulling a laden trailer with them on

My BFG's AT's are more like 30.5" while the Recip are full 32" and the re-tread is a lot heavier tyre too. I think you might find the auto box kicking down a lot with 32" Insa's.

Can I ask why you want a re-tread tyre for daily road use?
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Post by: dxmedia on January 17, 2009, 12:00:25 PM: I know a lot of people who run insa's and nothing but good words for them. (2000 mile a month towing, limo driver, in town drivers...)

I had a blow out on the bfg's last week, so no tyre is perfect, but...

I'm going to be using the insa's for laning as well (simex will really only be for p&p so fuel and gearing isn't an issue at the moment) so tearing a £55 tyre on a tree stump is a lot less painful than tearing a £110 tyre on the same stump

As for remoulds delaminating, it's not the 1980's anymore...
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Post by: dxmedia on January 20, 2009, 01:13:48 PM: Just got off ebay a ramsey winch and bumper (well the bumpers for a defender, but I only wanted it for the mounting plate anyway).

Looking forward to getting that picked up give me an excuse to make a front bumper to mount the winch, and then to make up a rear bumper for the champion I've got waiting for it.