Birty Dastards Jeep Club

Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: momos on January 23, 2009, 05:33:59 PM

Title: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: momos on January 23, 2009, 05:33:59 PM
Hi All
I was meant to pick car up today but they are not happy with it.
The big knocking noise has gone now it has new shelves but there is another knocking noise which he thinks is carbon on the back of the valves.
He said that the cylinder head would have to come off to check valves, does this mean the engine will have to come out?
Does coking up happen to newer engines?
Thanks!
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Post by: Bubba on January 23, 2009, 05:36:06 PM
not  in my experiance
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Post by: Dutch on January 23, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
Hi Sarah.....you must be close to throwing it all in by now....!! :giveup:
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Post by: momos on January 23, 2009, 05:48:57 PM
I wont, by hook or by knife I will resolve it on monday
more waiting
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on January 23, 2009, 06:20:14 PM
Problem on a v6 is that it has two cylinder heads. Good news is that it's not usually an engine out job. If it is coked up, then you have to start pointing the finger at the lpg system.
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Post by: Mike Pavelin on January 23, 2009, 06:30:10 PM
Fiddly buggers to get off on a V6 KJ.
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Post by: Panic mechanic! on January 23, 2009, 07:19:26 PM
lpg doesn't cause coking up, its actually a lot nicer fuel to run a vehicle on , it doesn't blacken the oil either if is regularly maintained. what can happen are valve seats burn out , this is because some engines need a flash lube, to lubricate the valve seats, this only tends to happen on older  engines ,  which were designed in pre-lead free era,America has been running lead free for years so dealt with fitting vehicles with hardened valve seats a long time ago.
so I wouldn't point the first finger at the lpg system.
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Post by: momos on January 23, 2009, 07:38:33 PM
Hi, yeah someone gave me an article about the valve seats, i will definatley mention it on monday...can`t wait to get it back.
Where`s the talky box?
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Post by: Panic mechanic! on January 23, 2009, 07:39:59 PM
its on version 15, tim is going for the perfect solution as we all do  :-D
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Post by: scrw on January 23, 2009, 08:17:25 PM
Did they just change the crank bearing shells or do the big end shells aswell?
What else did they do?
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Post by: momos on January 23, 2009, 08:18:09 PM
version 15! blimey, still not as bad as Microsoft!
hehe
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Post by: MOCAJ on January 23, 2009, 08:21:09 PM
Hello,

you got a busted Jeep and your worried about the chat box  :shock:
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Post by: momos on January 23, 2009, 08:23:55 PM
haha, yeah I know
big end shelves? not sure, so much talking and not enough taking in.....
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Post by: scrw on January 23, 2009, 08:30:44 PM
Shells not shelves

here are some being fitted (crank ones on a BFO engine)

(http://http://www.photosfan.com/images/installing-the-thinshell-bearings-crank-rod-journa11.jpg)

big end ones are on the conecting rods..

(http://http://www.coventryboringandmetalling.co.uk/big%20ends%20pic%20cbm.jpg)
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Post by: Bubba on January 23, 2009, 08:33:50 PM
i think they wrongly diagnosed and now i smell mucho ass covering
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Post by: scrw on January 23, 2009, 08:36:19 PM
me thinking they ain't done the big ends at the same time
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Post by: momos on January 23, 2009, 08:43:56 PM
now they did say to get to the conrods the engine will have to come out.

Well, its that time. Time for beers and wishing for monday. Deja vous me thinks
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Post by: scrw on January 23, 2009, 08:51:18 PM
You can sometimes do the big end shells with the pistons still in, don't know with a KJ v6 tho
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Post by: Bishops Finger on January 23, 2009, 09:34:42 PM
Jeep dealer asscovering...no that doesnt happen.... :evil:
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Post by: daggie on January 24, 2009, 04:56:47 PM
I'm with Stew,the non techy :roll:
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on January 24, 2009, 05:35:05 PM
Quote from: "daggie"
I'm with Stew,the non techy :roll:


I wouldn't put it quite so eloquently, but I agree.
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Post by: dxmedia on January 24, 2009, 09:21:48 PM
I'd personally get the car out of that garage pronto.

Carbon build up on the back of the valves??

BS.

What makes them think that, do they have a 'carbon build up on the back of valves' meter?  If there's a top end rattle then that's going to possibly be cam related, if there's low compression in a cylinder then it could be valves or seat or a head problem, or if they know how to use a compression tester than possibly rings, bores...

To say, oo you've a problem specifically with 'x' when your using a fuel which produces very very little carbon, I call BS.
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Post by: momos on January 26, 2009, 12:07:35 PM
Hi All,
Just got back from dealers, and they need to take it apart to find out what the second knocking is. I made a video, not sure if I can get it on here, but can email it, if it would help...
Dad thinks it could be valve gears, lpg is NOT blame, the bearings were absolutley shot. The shells were peeled right back, split and broke, there was alot of fine shit in the sump, which could have been sucked up into the engine...so I`m not really any the wiser.
He is taking 2 hours to get to the cam cover and investigate further £160
laters
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Post by: scrw on January 26, 2009, 02:16:28 PM
stop spending, get a replacement engine asap. if it has had an oiling problem you will be chasing problems & spending big £
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on January 26, 2009, 02:17:29 PM
What he said. You're flushing your money down the shitter. You'll be repairing that engine for evermore.
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Post by: scrw on January 26, 2009, 02:23:45 PM
if they found debris in the sump & just changed the crank bearings I would be having a stern work with the service manager, bodge springs to mind. take it elsewhere & get the engine swapped, & start talking refund!
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Post by: Bishops Finger on January 26, 2009, 08:44:10 PM
Fact...they should find the problem and then quote you...not rip you off to find out why they are too incompetant to identify the issue Sarah... :wink:
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Post by: dxmedia on January 26, 2009, 10:19:56 PM
Citizens advice ;)
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Post by: momos on January 27, 2009, 10:51:32 PM
Here`s the complaint I just sent....don`t know what will come back, more waiting...hope I did the right thing


Dear Sir,please forward to customer services as I cannot find an email. My Jeep Cherokee`s engine started to make a loud knocking noise on the motorway 2 friday`s ago, the car was recovered and has spent all this time with Hatfields at Bury. I asked for a quote to find out problem, £300. I told them the car had recently been serviced, it nearly ran out of oil early last year and that its lpg converted. They told me it needed a new engine and I should start looking for one, spent all last weekend trying to find one, which I did. Then after numerous calls he said it needed new shelves, another £300 but did nothing else and said new engine not needed so I told the buyer to put engine back up for sale. Then last friday when I was meant to pick it up, he wouldn`t let me take it because it was still making the knocking noise and presumed carbon had built up on the valves. I went over with my Dad on Monday and he showed us all the bits of metal they got out. Wonderful. Then he says he needs to take it apart again to find out whats wrong, which I thought we did 1st time. So, He wants £160 to take out all the top wires and have a look from the top?! So, I call tuesday morning to find out whats going on and he had 4 breakdowns yesterday so hasn`t looked at it. Meanwhile, I have no car, definatley no courteousy car as they are only for service customers and he has spent to many hours on the car for the price and there is a 3 week waiting list. He also said to buy the spare engine. Which has now gone. I am STILL waiting, with a probable, dont know answer, we will need this much more to check whats wrong with it. Although the gentleman was nice, I can`t help feeling I`m being led up a garden path with an expendable chunck of money I can chip away at? The lpg has been blamed, but I doubt this because it is cleaner than petrol and only older engines coke up. I understnad it can run hotter and the valve seets can break up but only after say 160k miles not 61k.
Thank you for your time, please pass this to the appropriate dept. as I am in meetings most of tomorow so can`t ring.
Regards,
Sarah Parry.
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Post by: Bishops Finger on January 27, 2009, 11:45:07 PM
Hmmm...not acceptable big time

Most of us are not too au fait as they say in Wrexham (lol) about 3.7 KJ's  so I'd love to hear views from such as the Doc on this....

Being as what for me sins I control a team of service engineers would like some tech feed back before opinions are offerd coz I'll possibly rewrite Sarahs letter if she wishes.........

PM's appreciated as and when

El Baroni

One has some uses....
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Post by: momos on January 29, 2009, 11:49:57 AM
Hi, thanks for that but I just spoke with Chrysler and complained, she went on to the service manager who is deeply dissapointed with me for complaining. He insists he was trying to help me and make cheapest option decisions along the way....I am proper fed up.
Meanwhile...the guy in london can pick up the car and put a replacement engine in for £2100
great if I had it.
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Post by: momos on February 01, 2009, 11:23:13 PM
wtf is this
he says its the engine i`m buying
i dont want a pretty oic i want dirty engine with test and pref sump off......(http://http://birtydastardsjeepclub.com/forum/userpix/1678_226cid_1.jpg)
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Post by: momos on February 03, 2009, 11:41:13 AM
omg i have just come off the phone to bury garage and am really upset.
I told him the car will be recovered tomorow and want to talk about the bill, so he said there was nothing to talk about and that is was £780, so i asked if he could reconsder it and he tapped away on the calculator and told me the job should be costing me about £1700 (!!!!!) so i was already getting a discount, then i said dad had been onto trading standards, which i had done just to see where i stand and according to supplier of sericves and goods act i could pursue it only i agreed to work that was not guaranteed...when i said this he went into legal advisor mode and said he would have to do the job with no labour costs,,,,,so he would of been happy to charge me£1700 with no better a car, only with new parts in!!!
i was furious and said that he was right, when the car came in, he said it needed a new engine. no parts could fix it, only when i said i found an engine did he say wecould try this and that, might be cheaper etc
Arghhhhh! so now i have to pay £600 which is better but god i cant wait till its out of there. sorry for the rant, dreading seeing him tomorow....hope i dont get upset
grumble...
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Post by: isle of man on February 03, 2009, 12:11:48 PM
It was a bad decision to investigate into the engine - the advisor is probably inexperienced in these matters.
For me I would advise to cut your losses trade it and start again.
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Post by: momos on February 03, 2009, 12:18:55 PM
i know, he said it will need a new engine, it was only after i found one that he said he was confident that changing the shells would sort it. He knew i was going to take it away and have someone else put the engine in.
I know i have to bite the bullet, its just so ridiculous when he comes out with `i`ve dissapointed him and he is insulted by me`, chrysler ho were the same. Lesson learnt.  :roll:
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Post by: dxmedia on February 03, 2009, 12:43:10 PM
Not at all, you were told that they would fix it. They are a professional establishment to all of there work is covered (trade descritptions, sale of goods act all of them point at that) and they would have to resolve the issue for you.

What they are hoping for is for you to walk.  Go to cab, get advise and get a replacment engine FOC with a curtosey car from them whilst they do the work. If they off anything less take them to the cleaners.
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Post by: Dave69 on February 03, 2009, 02:39:28 PM
personally i would have worded the letter a bit more direct with some specific questions so they couldn't fob you off with an icreased bill. what he is trying to do is intimidate you into paying the amount. They quoted you a fixed engine for £300, then once thet realised it wan't that and they probably knew they couldn't fix it the moment the engine was started, hence the need to strip the top end for another amount of money. also hence the reason why it's been put to the back of the garage and left, since it's not a basic service which by the sonds of it that's the only thing they a capable of. I'd write a letter of complaint about service and false promises to the uk jeep customers services. you may have to stump up what you origionally agreed to but do what you feel and pull the jeep out and complain.
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Post by: Mike Pavelin on February 03, 2009, 05:34:01 PM
If you're not paying labour costs, £600 seems a helluva lot for a set of big end shells, even with some gaskets and oil thrown in.
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Post by: Dave69 on February 03, 2009, 07:14:43 PM
what you could do is ask another jeep dealer for a price on parts and labour for the work carried out and then compare the two prices
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Post by: isle of man on February 03, 2009, 07:44:22 PM
That's Logical.....
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Post by: momos on February 03, 2009, 08:59:13 PM
aye, he wont break the price down, already asked, it was 300 to look, 300 to put shells in and 180 to take top off... so i pay 600, instead of 1700, i`m done with them, completley, fed up
its sorn so i`ll just waitm time to save etc but cheers !
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Post by: Bishops Finger on February 03, 2009, 09:13:56 PM
IM lost....

Somewhere between this thread, the chat box, and J33P I've completely lost the plot about MoMo's KJ as i reckon have others...

Can someone put up say 4-5 bullet points the state of the situation so folk can help out..... :shock:
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Post by: Bubba on February 03, 2009, 11:02:40 PM
sadly its very simple bish
its broke
they told porkys
its still broke
they are atempting to shaft her bank acount
its still broke
she needs outta there pronto
and to take iom,s advise
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Post by: Tank on February 03, 2009, 11:29:27 PM
:imwitstupid:
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Post by: Bishops Finger on February 03, 2009, 11:58:19 PM
Ah...So whats needed is a recommendation for a decent garage Lancs way

Get the KJ out of where it is..and if some card payment is needed to get KJ out of shit garage then  cancel payment afterwards and tell credit card company work was not acceptable under sale of goods act 1896 (with revisions)


Momo needs reeducating with a hammer to ask for estimates rather than quotes.........

If Momo has recovery membership RAC/AA etc should help failing that some one will....eg decent garage...
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Post by: momos on February 04, 2009, 04:11:51 PM
Hi,
Right, I`ve paid the swines and am waiting to hear of a fresh engine...rubbing hands.
The guy wouldn`t even come out and see me, my departing words....if the crank is at all damaged, ...i`ll be back!
seems like alot of people have been trying their cherokees in the snow and have come croppers.... :roll:
its awful waiting for someone to have a prang, just hope noone`s been hurt...tata
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Post by: dxmedia on February 04, 2009, 07:57:34 PM
Why did you pay  :roll:  ;) ) with hold payment, and have them recitify all problems for the original quoted price else your legally entitled to sue the bejesus out of them.

Now, you've a hole in your poket a shafted motor and about to throw more expence to get a problem resolved which the person you've walked away from was legally responsible for !!

He didn't come out and see you since he was too busy mopping his brow and counting the cash !!!
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Post by: momos on February 05, 2009, 03:04:30 PM
well this is better?

(http://http://birtydastardsjeepclub.com/forum/userpix/1678_37_Engine_1.jpg)
(http://http://birtydastardsjeepclub.com/forum/userpix/1678_37_Engine_1_1.jpg)

have they gone thru exhaust downpipe? and the side of the block is rusty...
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on February 05, 2009, 03:12:35 PM
That'll work  8-)
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Post by: Bubba on February 05, 2009, 06:33:51 PM
compackt litle beasty aint it
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Post by: momos on February 05, 2009, 08:07:41 PM
octapuss!
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Post by: isle of man on February 05, 2009, 08:19:43 PM
Sell the fooooooker and move-on.
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Post by: momos on February 10, 2009, 05:11:23 PM
this has just come up been stood for 2 years, £760, 30 days w, 32k miles...

(http://http://birtydastardsjeepclub.com/forum/userpix/1678_JEEP_CHEROKEE_SWB_SILVER_200106_013_1.jpg)

(http://http://birtydastardsjeepclub.com/forum/userpix/1678_Jeep_Cherokee_SWB_V6_37_Litre_Petrol_Engine_002_1.jpg)

(http://http://birtydastardsjeepclub.com/forum/userpix/1678_Jeep_Cherokee_SWB_V6_37_Litre_Petrol_Engine_003_1.jpg)
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Post by: Dutch on February 10, 2009, 05:45:48 PM
That's a lump all right..are u going for this one .?..hope its all ok. :wink:
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Post by: Dave69 on February 10, 2009, 06:44:57 PM
if you buy it dont forget to check what the warrantee is or covers
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Post by: Bubba on February 10, 2009, 07:03:02 PM
30 days waranty fuck i would want to test drive it first
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Post by: MOCAJ on February 10, 2009, 07:11:55 PM
is it all worth it, an early KJ aint worth much and an untested engine from a scrapper going in  :?:

I would start again, break the one you have and go from there  :wink:
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Post by: Bubba on February 10, 2009, 07:21:01 PM
i realy realy think sell it to the breakers and buy the best xj you can find
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Post by: tim_aka_tim on February 10, 2009, 07:25:09 PM
Not necessarily that easy, as the car has a personal loan secured on it, and last I heard, the loan company were not sympathetic to the situation.
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Post by: Bubba on February 10, 2009, 07:26:16 PM
o arse.....is that engine at equicar
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Post by: MOCAJ on February 10, 2009, 07:31:43 PM
mmm, it sure is a mess but still think its best got rid of  :wink:
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Post by: Tank on February 10, 2009, 08:57:17 PM
Would this fit????

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Breaking-Audi-A8- ... 240%3A1318 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Breaking-Audi-A8-V8-Engine-3-7-32v-230BHP-Type-AEW_W0QQitemZ370127206105QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item370127206105&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)
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Post by: Tank on February 10, 2009, 08:59:45 PM
Or buy this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2004-JEEP-CHEROKE ... 240%3A1318 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2004-JEEP-CHEROKEE-EXTREME-SPORT-A-GREEN_W0QQitemZ320338386148QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item320338386148&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)
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Post by: momos on February 10, 2009, 09:17:25 PM
aye saw that car!
have to stick with mine, owe tonnes on it
fingers crossed for tomorow then i have to save up to put it in
doh
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: momos on February 12, 2009, 07:17:36 PM
I got it, it passed all the tests and he sent pics of each stage!
hopefully being put in early next week.
I`ll only be releived when it drives ok...
phew :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: daggie on February 14, 2009, 07:17:03 AM
fingers crossed :shock:
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: Tank on February 14, 2009, 10:11:46 AM
Theres been more to this than War and Peace    :lol:
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: daggie on February 14, 2009, 04:37:08 PM
hopefully it'll end in "peace" :prayer:
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: Tank on February 15, 2009, 01:11:00 PM
Hear Hear  :partyman:
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: momos on February 18, 2009, 09:41:17 PM
sorry, only a `mo` without funbus sniff
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: Bishops Finger on February 18, 2009, 10:16:01 PM
Has been a saga for sure...hope it works out..
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: momos on February 26, 2009, 03:01:42 PM
Funbus is purring down the phone to me, all tickety boo
can`t wait to pick it up 2morow
Yipeeee!
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: Bulldog67 on February 26, 2009, 03:04:19 PM
:mrgreen:
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: momos on February 26, 2009, 03:07:35 PM
:-D   its like Christmas!!!!
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: Bishops Finger on February 26, 2009, 08:57:27 PM
fucck that means another 15 pigs in blankets :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: momos on February 26, 2009, 10:10:40 PM
I won`t sleep tonight   :smt026
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: momos on February 27, 2009, 07:54:56 PM
Well I picked up Funbus today from Auto Wizzard in Rotheram and am well chuffed   :finga:
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: Bifffo on February 27, 2009, 10:21:25 PM
All is well with an happy ending.
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: daggie on February 28, 2009, 06:28:05 AM
eggsellent 8-)
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: JamesH on March 06, 2009, 03:40:14 PM
Good news, time for a drink!

 :drinkers:
Title: Re: Momo`s kj engine
Post by: Dave69 on March 06, 2009, 05:45:08 PM
nice to hear you now have a good result, i hope you have all the damaged parts if your making roads to claim for damages