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[ferretjuggler]

My understanding is that an unbraked A frame is illegal on anything over 750kg
I read (on here I think) that A frames have been constructed which have a linkage to opperate the towed vehicles brakes.
I'm just thinking how easy/difficult this would be to construct and what the legality of such a system would be.

Anybody got one, seen one, got plans, or know the legal status?

I've no moral objection to telling the odd fib (or barefaced lie) to Plod or VOSA like telling them it were constructed 30 years ago

[Mike Pavelin]

Why dont you just get a recovery dolly with brakes?

[Nosebolt]

look here, they trying to sell but does show how they work

[Lornaben]

Caratow have some good info on their site about the legal bits. Here

Braked towing dollies are still illegal to use unless you can get something to activate the rear brakes on the towed vehicle.

It all comes down to the the whole towed 'assembly' being considered a trailer. If it exceeds 750kg then all wheels in contact with the road have to be braked.

HTH

[ferretjuggler]

Why dont you just get a recovery dolly with brakes

Good point.
On a technical level the dolly is doing all it's braking from the front, which methinks is a reciepe for a jacknife.
I suspect Alan is right about dollys, could get ya into a load of shite if you were involved in a bad RTA while using one.

I thought any system for towing had to be autoreverse brakes after 1990(ish) and that system aint (Cheers anyway Bruce!)

[Tank]

My understanding is that an unbraked A frame is illegal on anything over 750kg
I read (on here I think) that A frames have been constructed which have a linkage to opperate the towed vehicles brakes.
I'm just thinking how easy/difficult this would be to construct and what the legality of such a system would be.

Anybody got one, seen one, got plans, or know the legal status?

I've no moral objection to telling the odd fib (or barefaced lie) to Plod or VOSA like telling them it were constructed 30 years ago

I had a braked A-frame,made by Intertrade under their Solomatic brand name,which had an attacment that fitted against the seat,shaped like a wide "L" with straps that adjusted to hold it tight,the there was an extending adjustable arm on a spring that attached to break peddle then the whole lot was connected the the moving part of the hitch via what is best described as a brake cable,nippled at both ends so as you brake,the hitch pushes back,pulling th ecable which then pulled the arm in the car towards the brake peddle.Strictly speaking an A frame is only legal if braked as as soon as you attach the Aframe to the car it becomes a trailer and being over 750kg must be braked.Having said this most plod have no idea of the law as far as towing goes and i have used unbraked ones many times with no problems

[Bubba]

ok then how is a sectacle lift legal then


ok how about a full lift using a spectacle at the front and a colapsable dolly at the rear vehcle is fully off the gound and now is an unbraked trailer

[Lornaben]

Recovery is a different ball game to transporting.

Recovery companies have special dispensations and rules that don't apply to the general public. Thats why they can use towing dollies and Spectacle lifts. If I remember right, vehicles that are listed on their V5 as Recovery vehicles are MOT exempt. They have to be specifically built for recovery though (as in spec lift fitted) and are not allowed to carry anything that is not related to a recovery. ie vehicle and occupants.

As we are transporting our vehicles, not recovering them, we are bound by the normal towing rules and regulations.

[ferretjuggler]

Recovery is a different ball game to transporting.

Recovery companies have special dispensations and rules that don't apply to the general public. Thats why they can use towing dollies and Spectacle lifts. If I remember right, vehicles that are listed on their V5 as Recovery vehicles are MOT exempt. They have to be specifically built for recovery though (as in spec lift fitted) and are not allowed to carry anything that is not related to a recovery. ie vehicle and occupants.

As we are transporting our vehicles, not recovering them, we are bound by the normal towing rules and regulations

That is my basic understanding of the situation.

[Bubba]

and there is nothing to stop anyone buying an old recovery truck and using it
i used to work in the recovery industry and i know a few folk running recoverys non hire and reward and hence there goes my last question they are still unbraked and do get used for towing many hundreds of miles at a time it cant be legal on one hand and ilegal on the other it has to be either or
all i realy saying is its very gray area

[Lornaben]

and there is nothing to stop anyone buying an old recovery truck and using it
i used to work in the recovery industry and i know a few folk running recoverys non hire and reward and hence there goes my last question they are still unbraked and do get used for towing many hundreds of miles at a time it cant be legal on one hand and ilegal on the other it has to be either or
all i realy saying is its very gray area

That's the nub of it, it's my understanding that if we comply to all the insurance, licensing and tacho requirements then we would be in the 'recovery' industry so we could then tow unbraked when recovering a vehicle.

The pitfall is that we aren't recovering our vehicles we're transporting them. Different situation so different rules apply.

Not so much a grey area more a bit off white 

[ferretjuggler]

Hmmmm.........
They way I see it is that a lot of folk are bending and braking the rules all the time and getting away with it.
I've used an unbraked A frame lots of times, on junkyard motors too no tax/MOT just a trailerboard and some bungees.
FFS I got away with trailering a FSJ back from Wales with my Mindy (took the engine out first tho)

Plod may be indifferent and just check your details and lights and send you on your way.

But have an ACCIDENT when you is towing illegally and you is in Shit Street.
Especially if someone gets injured or worse

[Bubba]

maybe we should just buy a comunal trailer

[ferretjuggler]

I've collected enough bits to build one from a Rice horsebox trailer
Now don't laugh Rice trailers are tough as old boots.
Got "slipper" type leaf springs and live axles with brakes on all four wheels.
Just gotta design it and buy the steel.
Only trouble is I want it to be able to carry a wagoneer

[Bubba]

gonna buy some more are you then mate

[ferretjuggler]

Damn!
You sussed my cunning plan Kev

I'm just thinking it would be useful if I've got something which will carry one.
Just in case anythin comes up for spares/axles/engine or whatever

[Bubba]

i tell no lie but can you remember a six wheeled j10 on ebay a couple of years ago  it was some kind of pickup but used to belong to stafs fire service
well i done sid it yesterday dinner time on the a444 going in to nuneaton j10 recovery maybe

[ferretjuggler]

I can vaguely remember it

Nice to here that someone has put it to good use anyways

[Bubba]

this one pics are in its former glory
http://www.angelfire.com/nb2/jeeppickups/jeep_of_england.html