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[williecba]

[attachment=1]

This is what my pucks are doing to my springs. Or vice versa. Time for some new springs methinks.


[attachment=2]

Oh look its got a bend in it!!!

[scrw]

My spacers fit into the top mount and are cone shaped to centre the top of the spring, not seen bottom mounted ones before

[scrw]

hang on, you have rough country spacers don't you? If so they are mounted wrong, they should be at the top not bottom.

[williecba]

Half right. I have the instructions sitting here in front of me. Front Puck does go on top but rear pucks go on top of axle underneath the spring.

A lot of the different brands of spacer appear to be made by the same people and fit the same.

It was an interesting fact that the Rough Country instruction say fit rear spacer with part number upwards but it look wrong compared with the photograph. Turns out the part numbers for Rough Country and others are now printed on the lower face.

The was a lovely step by step with large colour glossy photos at;- http://www.jeepspeak.com/bb_wj.asp

[DarrenR]

Looking at your avatar mate, I don't think a BB lift is designed for that kind of abuse they are just for leveling lifts or fitting bigger tyres on street jeeps
at full droop that bumpstop would not relocate the spring with 2 ton of jeep landing on it
you could get new bump stops milled at engineering shop and have it bolted and threaded from underneath the axle
not got a WJ so not sure of the positioning.

full length springs are the only way to get full articulation from a lift 

[scrw]

Rough Country instructions here http://www.roughcountry.com/install/695.pdf say install at the top

[tim_aka_tim]

full length springs are the only way to get full articulation from a lift 

Arr. If you're gonna do a job, do it right.

Steve is right also, the instructions for the Rough Country from the website do say fit the rear puck at the top.

[williecba]

Just so you know I was only following orders here is the Rough Country Instructions that I followed.
[attachment=1]

[attachment=2]

So I am not a total idiot!!!!!!

This was never meant to be more than a staging point on my journey to where I am going.

The trouble is, I did not know I was going there when I set out.

First of all I had a 2" Budget Boost.  But I wanted a winch. Which meant I had to get a winch Bumper.

Then I found one, organised shipping myself through friends, and found that my shipping cost remained constant no matter how much I bought because it was coming in a sea container.

So I bought lots and lots and lots of heavy shit and then thought, "This is heavy, better get new springs!" and found that Kevins 2.75" Kit was supposedly the most lift I could use without new Drive Shafts.

So I ordered that as well and fitted the whole lot without first measuring the hub to fender height so I was left unable to measure how much height I had gained. Difficult to judge because the Rock Sliderz lower the sides by 2".

Because the diff lock had failed I also fitted a new front axle, bought from a breakers, that was pretty shitty but I fitted it anyway.

After 4 Pay and Play days I had destroyed both my front drive shaft and my spare front drive shaft so I cancelled further outings.

By now I had a 3rd 2001 axle to fit but I needed to buy another front drive shaft. Why bother with 10 year old shafts (which I can't find on ebay) or a £575 new Rzeppa-Rzeppa shaft from Jeep when £443 gets me a brand new Tom Wood Multiple Double Cardon?

But there is no point putting a Tom Wood shaft on a 2.75 inch lift.

( Now there is where I may have had a lapse of judgement )

I go Hey! I have unused Pucks for plus 2", I have extended rear sway bar links, I have front Discos, I have shocks that are good for 2-4 inches of lift, I have an A-Frame spacer, I have an adjustable track bar ( RHD), I have bump stop extensions, I have front coil lower retaining clips, I have front coil upper retainers!!
Put the pucks on and under the springs and then all I need apart from the drive shaft is a new set of control arms. How simple.
And then I should have at least 4". Pucks and Springs together seem to be what most guys in the UK who have 4" lifts have got.
And then I can drive my Jeep again.

Then, when I have made sure my new axle is OK and solved the problem of the poor brakes and checked that all my suspension mods work OK, I will swap the springs and pucks for a set of new springs. How hard can that be!! AND it's my birthday! So a quick email to Kevin and as soon as I have the control arms I can fit them and measure up for my drive shaft (s). ( Well why stop at 4" )

The mistake I made was that the Kevin's 2.75 kit was made to get a standard WJ up 2.75 inches. Adding up the shipping weights on roof rack, rock sliders, bumpers, winch, skid plates, control arms, drive shafts etc there could be around 1000 lbs of extra weight on the vehicle. Well that is just the weight of a typical two adults, two kids, American family, should not be a problem should it? And the trolley jack and axle stands and all the tools I carry, that can't weigh more than a typical American picnic lunch and snacks. Easy!

It was only at Xmas when the guy with a new 3" IRO lift parked his Grand next to mine and stood taller and prouder that I began to think that maybe I had miscalculated. Hence asking all the WJ guys to take the hub to fender measurement and crawling round the Sainsbury's and Ikea car parks with a tape measure looking for Grand Cherokees. Result is that even with pucks and springs I am only getting about 2" or 2.5" over stock.

But DON'T WORRY. I have a plan. Jack it up. Take off the wheels. Strip out the new springs, strip out the pucks, put in the original springs. Put the wheels on again. Take it off the Jacks. Measure the spring length with wheels on the ground. Jack the body up to the height I desire and measure the length new springs will have to be when under compression. Lower it. Jack it up again, take off the wheels and take out the original springs. Then put all the new springs and pucks back again. Put the wheels back on again. Lower the Jacks. Take the original springs, box then up with the measurements I have taken, add a cheque and send them to a nice man called Neal in Sheffield and after about 5 weeks I should be able to put 4 lovely new springs in place under my Jeep and then I will be able to stand Tall and Proud.

After that maybe I can start adjusting control arms and cutting bumpers ready for my 33s when I get them.

Now maybe you still think I am a total idiot but after all, I am now an idiot who has learnt a little bit about springs.

Remember, "It is not the destination but the journey that is important".

[DarrenR]

No ones calling you an idiot mate
We've all been on "the journey" that's how he got here 

What it does prove though, WGs aren't a great start for a serious off road project
I have a lifted ZJ and know some of you woes about drive shafts and CVs etc
Before I spend more on her I am thinking may be better to build another Xj off roader a lot easier a lot less problems to overcome.
But I do like the fact that there aren't as many lifted grand cherokees in the uk So I may keep going with it

Good luck with the build should look good when it's done 

[williecba]

I still remember just about 2 years ago going to an all makes  pay and play down in Hampshire which was wet and muddy. As I did not want to get stuck I tagged on behind a group of 3 Landy's who had lifts and mud tyres, although nothing too extreme. I managed to go nearly everywhere that they did, just avoiding the deepest of ruts. I went up to them afterwards to give them back a bit that had dropped off one of them en route and that I had picked up. The leader was most complimentary about my Jeep's capability and I vividly recall the somewhat sick look that passed across his face when he suddenly noticed that I had managed to do all this on a set of worn road tyres!

Hooray for locking diffs!

I know that if I wanted great off road performance I could go out today and buy a Landy in any state of modification I desired.

I can go out and buy a Jeep better suited to off roading but there would be quite a few others bigger and better equipped around all the time.

The fun for me is the fact that practically nobody over here has done this. I cannot just go out and buy a WJ modded up the way I would like it. I won't find a similar one parked beside me at the supermarket. I may be wasting enormous amounts of time and stupid amounts of money but I am getting a great deal of enjoyment out of it. Admittedly it is getting to the point where I could have bought a pretty decent car for the  money I have spent on something that sits looking sick and ugly in my front drive but how else would I have occupied my time?

To paraphase JFK, :"We choose to do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard."

Or as Sting so memorably sang, "I Love My Quad-Ra-Drive."

[scrw]

build another Xj off roader a lot easier a lot less problems to overcome.

I wouldn't say that, its alot easier & cheaper to fit 31"s to a WJ than XJ, they will go on with a 2" lift no problem on a WJ. The only issue with the WJ is the front prop, its a crap design, plus a low pinion front diff which is something XJs got in 2000 also. Its just there are more XJs about than WJs.
As soon as I have sorted my front prop out my WJ is going up in the world 

[Bulldog67]

Cracking work Willie  

think big, and let the doom mongers doom just flow over ya, coz its a v v rare day when anyone simply says 'good idea, well done', im assuming thats coz its easier to say ya 'doomed if ya do, doomed if ya dont'

and when ya move on to ya next project give me first dibs if its still got life left in it  

[DarrenR]

Will
no need for Tom Woods prop
Like you found the spring guy in Sheffield to make your springs I used a guy in East Grinstead to refurb and lengthen my old xj prop when I went up to 4" lift, he said give him the measurements and he'll make one.

I presume you mean Kevin from K.O.R, If I keep going with the Grand  (probably) I have a long shopping list, already got his rock sliders 
I had a lifted wrangler, pay and play days were not as fun as in the xj not done one in the grand yet as really wanted a green laner rather than a p&p thing

You obviously have some great typing skills lets have a build thread 

[williecba]

I am working on my build thread, where would I post it?

[williecba]

I have been doing some research into lift kits for the WJ Grand Cherokee.

Rough Country do a $500 4" lift for a WJ.
http://www.roughcountry.com/jeep_wj_4.html

On theWebsite it says:-
• Does NOT fit models equipped with CV style shaft on the front differential.

They also do a $750 Kit.
 http://www.roughcountry.com/jeep_wj_4x.html

This says the same thing.

Rusty's Offroad do a more comprehensive 4.5"  Lift Kit that costs $1200
http://rustysoffroad.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=rustys&Product_Code=RK-405A-WJ&Category_Code=wj_kits

This has a more comprehensive warning:-
The WJ Grand Cherokee comes with several different style driveshafts, some come with a standard CV at the transfer case and a U-joint at the axle, this is good and if that’s what you have, you don’t have to change anything. Others come with a CV at the transfer case and a Rezeppa type joint at the axle. If your front driveshaft is this style and you are lifting it, you will need to purchase our WJ Driveshaft Conversion part # RD-DS01-WJ. There are some WJ’s with a Rezeppa at both ends of the driveshaft, if your vehicle has this style you will need to buy the Rusty’s Driveshaft Conversion as well as the optional transfer case yoke. All these driveshaft conversions and parts can be found on Rusty’s Driveline Page.

The Driveline page links you to Tom Woods Driveshafts.
Since we have Rzeppa-Rzeppa driveshafts on our Jeeps we would need to buy Pinion and Transfer/case yokes as well as the actual drive shaft.

I have a recent quote from Tom Woods for a conventional double cardan with XC slip yoke and spline stub which would give a greater range of fitment accuracy, through a wider variety of lifts.


Shaft plus two yokes. $299 + $75 +$60.  With shipping $160 to the UK that comes to  $594 and at $1.6 to the pound that makes £372.  I got charged £19 for every £100 of goods and shipping but VAT has gone up so allow £20 per £100 and that would make £75 import duty. Total cost for the drive shaft on your doorstep would be around £447.
I hold no particular brief for Tom Woods and I know you can get extended driveshafts made up here in the UK but as someone I spoke to about this pointed out, "You will have to get the Yokes from somewhere."

Iron Rock Offroad do a 3” Lift Kit. This is supposed to need no new drive shaft.
There is someone I know who has had this fitted and I am waiting for more information from him.

2” of lift is easily available in the UK. Stock springs are 140ibs/inch

Devon 4x4 do Old Man Emu springs at £94.80 a spring
These are only 40mm over stock and come in two strengths.
For up to 40Kg over stock weight. These are 40lb/inch stiffer than stock.
For 41-90Kg over stock weight (recommended for Diesels). These are 8olbs stiffer than stock.

Using the 41-90Kg over on a petrol engined Jeep seems to give about 3”

First Four Off Road do the Traill Master (Germany) Kit this is 50mm (2”) over spring and shock absorber kit. However this costs £598 + VAT

Rusty’s Offroad in the states do 2.5” springs which are 12lbs stiffer than stock springs. These cost $129 per pair. Guessing the weight and shipping, these would probably work out at £400 for 4 springs. These are 12lbs stiffer than stock springs.

Llama4x4 do a Rough Country 1.5” Shocks and Pucks kit for £235


Now I do not want to upset David at Llama but I am going off the idea of pucks. The Grand is a heavy vehicle and they are now all between 7-11 years old. The measurements I am making in the car parks of England suggest that a V8 Grand can easily be 1” under stock height. I know that my 2 Grands had at least ½ difference in height. Putting a 2” puck on a vehicle with  springs that have lost an inch means that you only gain an inch over stock and may mean your new tyres won’t fit.
What it needs is for someone enterprising ( like David ) to come up with a reasonably priced 2 to 2.5” spring and shock kit. That way you could be sure exactly what height you would end up with.
If the new springs for my Jeep work out well I may see about getting a set of 2" springs made up on spec. The fact that you have to send your old springs off for several weeks is a bit of a bugger but my breaker Jeep, adjusted for weight, could easily sit on blocks for a while.

[williecba]

It is not a question of getting the Front prop shaft lengthened but of replacing the Rzeppa CV joints at each end because they do not flex enough. We need new Yokes to go on the diff and transfer case shafts that are specially made to fit a WJ. The transfer case one fits inside the t/case oil seal so precision is essential.

[Bulldog67]

I am working on my build thread, where would I post it?

workshop section (underneath tech)

[scrw]

None HD OME DIESEL springs will give a 2-2.5" lift to a petrol WJ, HD ones give 3-3.5" lift

[DarrenR]

lengthening the the slip yoke is all I needed doing as it was an xj and as they go up the slip yoke can come out too far on full droop

so length can be an issue if droop is increased a lot by using disconnects, caster and pinion angles also affect propshaft alignment doing the lifting is the easy bit getting it all driving smooth after is the tricky bit 

Luckily I only have one CV on the grand propshaft to replace  Xj HP front axle will sort the half shafts out 

[williecba]

Rzeppa Drive Shaft.

The bit on the left should be on the end of the drive shaft. The bit on the right goes on the diff. That needs to be replaced by a Yoke and same thing at T case end.

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The two Rzeppa "yokes" I took off. The transfer case one, face down showing were it passes through the oil seal.

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