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[jayceb]

A big hello to you all, this is my first post as I am a new Cherokee KJ owner.

I have a problem with my KJ as I purchased it as a non-runner with suspected head gasket failure.
It's a 2003/53 Cherokee KJ 2.8 CRD Auto (Extreme Sport model).

Taking the top off the engine resulted in the discovery of 8 broken rocker arms on the inlet side.
Plus the timing was out of alignment as a result - hence being a non-runner.

Anyway, replaced the gaskets, head bolts, timing belt and rocker arms and re-assembled.
Engine now starts but was lumpy with lots of smoke coming out of the exhaust.
Disconnected the turbo pip to intercooler and found black oil coming out of the pipe.

After disconnecting the turbo, the engine settled down (most likely the rockers self adjusting???) and the smoke disappeared.

Now I'm left with the oil in the turbo.
Could this be a result of the rocker arms breaking or the dreaded turbo failing?

Or could the turbo failing cause the broken rocker arms and so on?

Anyway, some further information - the oil from the turbo is very black.
I wonder, could this suggest that the wrong oil was put in to the engine after a previous service?
I know the wrong oil can cause problems with the turbo due to the thickness in mineral oil compared to synthetic oil.

I'm tempted to clean out the turbo pipes and the inter-cooler, flush the engine oil and replace all and fill with synthetic.......or do you think I may be wasting my time?

I'm also considering purchasing a re-manufactured /rebuilt turbo on an exchange basis and the prices vary but, I'm looking for a cost effective repair as I haven't even driven this Jeep so far and I'm very eager to say the least! I'm not prepared to install a secondhand Turbo as I'm most likely wasting my money as they're not must cheaper than a reconditioned Turbo.

Any advice or recommendations duly welcomed.

Looks like a fantastic forum, I hope to contribute with valuable information when I have something more interesting to say.
I'm thinking of future mods such as lighting, double din radio/cd and so on....I hope it's plenty of fun as I love modding my cars :-)

[Shaggy]

How much oil is in the intercooler? how much play is in the turbo spindle? if the turbo spins freely & doesn't feel like its catching the housing or you can't see any signs of it catching you might get away with it. I take it the timing belt snapped? the rockers are designed to break to save the valves, if the turbo seals have gone they were going before the belt snapped, unless it has run on it's own oil & that's what did the belt!
If it were mine I would whip the turbo off & inspect it properly!

[Mike Pavelin]

You shouldn't run it any more until you've had the intercooler off and cleaned the oil out. There is a chance the engine was f*c*ed because it ran away due to failed turbo seals in the first place.

[Panic mechanic!]

yup you don't want this kinda thing to happen

[Shaggy]

Ha, I had a customers 300Tdi rangie do that to me on the M1 & the bleeding thing was an auto so didn't stand a chance of stalling it, number 3 rod made one hell of a crater in the hard shoulder when it did let go, the bang when they do let go is un-believable! 2 days later on my way to work my bloody rangie did the same thing, thankfully mine was manual & I managed to stall it, new turbo, new oil, intercooler washed & 2 hours later it's like nothing has ever happened!
if you have never had a turbo diesel run on their own oil, trust me it's proper brown trousers time

[Bubba]

had it with trucks biiiiiiiiig bang

[jayceb]

Sounds like many a nightmare if things go ignored!

The timing belt was fine, just the timing was out because of the snapped rocker arms.
Suspiciously the belt didn't look that old and I was told that the belt was replaced at around 62K miles, I cannot confirm but either way, I just replaced it again.

Cleaning out the pipes and the inter-cooler is the next job, I'll check how much oil is in there.
As for checking the turbo, I'm new to turbocharged vehicles, which part would I need to check?

As you can see from my dirty turbo, is it really a case of just seeing if there is any play on the spindle in the picture??

[Shaggy]

yes basically your checking for in/out play & side to side, there will be a little bit as there won't be any oil in the bearings, but to be honest looking at how ingrained the oil looks in the housing I would say your gonna need a turbo! I don't know how much you have been quoted but if you don't do it it's always going to be playing on your mind!!
If the belt was ok, it does sound very much like it's run on it's own oil! whilst your cleaning the cooler & pipes (petrol takes some beating for this, but make bloody sure everything is dry) clean the egr valve too, it will be very very full of shit!

I have looked at hundreds of diesels where customers have symptoms of coming off a roundabout & the car starts to pull like mad on its own in a cloud of smoke, it clears then seems ok again, the rac/aa tell them the turbo is gone! it isn't all it's done is picked up a drop from the intercooler! nobody ever cleans them out, I did a turbo not that long ago on a citroen c5, the spindle bearing had gone, when I pulled the cooler there must have been 3 litres of oil in it!

If your keeping the car, either get it rebuilt or swap it! or your just gonna worry about it, especially after the expense you have already gone to!

[bgbazz]

I have an '03 2.5CRD KJ Limited and the motor/turbo setup is pretty much the same as yours. You say you found oil in the turbo to intercooler hose, but what about the airbox to turbo hose? There is a small hose (19mm dia, I think), that comes from the crankcase breather on top of the motor and joins the big hose about halfway along it..it vents the oily mist that occurs inside the motor, which then passes through the turbo and up into the intercooler and so on. If there is too much of this oily crap, it will gather in the intercooler over time  and eventually fill it up. Many CRD owner fit a doohickey called a provent to the smaller hose and it catches the majority of the oil contained in the flow from the crankcase vent. If the big hose has a lot of oil, or is wet and sticky downstream of where the smaller hose fits onto it, it may indicate another problem inside the motor...you can test this easily by disconnecting the small hose from the bigger one, pop a cork or similar into the nipple on the big hose to keep the air clean, start the engine and while it's running, put your finger over the end of the smaller hose and feel the pressure. Ideally, you should'nt feel anything at all, even with a few casual blips on the go pedal, but if you detect pressure, especially a pulsing pressure, you've got an over pressurised crankcase..and at driving speed, that can and probably will pump oil into the turbo with all the resulting problems that follow.

Having said all that, bear in mind what the other guys have said, because they may well be totally right and I might be pissing in the wind. The tests and inspections I described will only take a few minutes and cost nothing. I have a mate here who had a problem with over pressure in the crankcase in his 2.8CRD and it turned out be a ring problem on one cylinder and it used to use oil in a big way..his intercooler was almost totally full of oil when we took it off.

In any case, I would be fitting a new/recon turbo when everything else has been checked and cleaned.

Good luck.

[jayceb]

sorry, it's a bit slow this end on further diagnostics and repair, I'm working on a budget and things will move along slowly.

Quick inspection of the turbo before I pull it all apart.
While holding the retainer nut in the picture above and checking for in/out and side to side play, I feel zero movement.
The (sorry I do not know the technical term) blades turn freely and feels smooth.
So.....am I checking this completely wrong? or did I miss something?

My next check was the hose connector on the intercooler, there is dark oil around the lip so I know there must be an amount of oil in there and I have to remove and flush the intercooler as expected.

Next on the list of checks was the oil level. I removed the dipstick, cleaned well and replaced.
Engine has not been running for a couple of days and the Jeep is sitting relatively flat on my drive.
To my surprise, I could not confirm the level of the oil on the dipstick as I think it's somewhere about 4 or 5 inches above the max mark, maybe more.

Does this sound like somebody over-filled the oil for some reason or is the reading inaccurate because of the problems?

Of course, the alternative could be that the engine has been using a lot of oil and somebody just over filled to get them by for a while longer?

It's still a mystery but I will be changing the oil/filter, cleaning out the turbo and associated pipes, plus a flush clean on the intercooler.
What's the best way to clean the intercooler? Will petrol be sufficient for the intercooler as well as the pipes?

thanks in advance, you're comments are always very helpful and potentially likely to save me a considerable amount trying to fix my Jeep.

[Panic mechanic!]

if its been over filled could totally fuck the engine you at least need to drain it and get the right amount in there to start with

[bgbazz]

The overfull situation is deffo bad..I always keep mine a couple of mm below the full mark.

To drain the intercooler I stood mine on its edge over a bucket, with the outlet in the bucket and left it sit for a few hours..the oil took quite a while to drip out, but it did..eventually! It was a coldish day so I used a fan heater to warm up the intercooler and it seemed to help a bit.

I used a mix of petrol and diesel to flush it out and then sat it back on the bucket over night. For the final flush I used very hot water and dishwashing liquid and shook the shit out of it before putting back over the bucket to drain it all out. Copious use of the air nozzle before refitting made sure no liquid was left in there before refitting.

You'd be amazed at the black shit that ended up in that bucket!!

[Shaggy]

without trying to teach you to suck eggs, if you have rebuilt any part of the engine, get the oil & filter changed, then get a magnet in the old oil & get hunting for any swarf!

[Mike Pavelin]

If you have bad injectors spewing excess fuel into the cylinders this can end up in the oil leading to an overfill as well.

[jayceb]

thanks for the advice, the oil/filter will be changed today and we'll check for debris and contaminants before disposing.
As for the inter-cooler, stripping down the bumper to get the thing out will be this weeks task but I'll get the intercooler fitted and the engine reassembled/running before putting the front end parts back together in case the turbo issue is genuine despite initial wishful thinking.

My mechanic want £100 to swap out the turbo and clean out the intercooler/pipes, so something which I'll let him do after the oil replacement update.

[bgbazz]

Any progress yet? I'm still interested in the front cover by the way.

[jayceb]

No progress yet, mechanic seems to have vanished....nature of mechanics I guess.
Anyway, progress is easy and I may do that myself but I'm not one for getting too dirty in the engine bay, long past have those days been and gone!

[bgbazz]

Know what you're say regarding mechanics, but getting down and getting dirty is the best part of owning a Jeep..ask any of the serious players on here. Until you have been under the motor when the sump plug reaches the last bit of thread and the oil changes your outlook on life......!