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[wildrover]

Hallo peeps....happy new year to all of you...hope its a good one for you...

Two days ago i went out to start my 1997 2.5 diesal mk2 cherokee , and it wasn,t having any of it...!    I thought the problem might be a flat battery , as i had not used it for a day or two , and had accidentally left my rechargable torch plugged into the power outlet on the instrument panel...  The previous night it had been a bit cold round these parts , i am talking here about Polish cold , like minus 25 centigrade , so the flat battery seemed a likely suspect...

The next morning i put the fully charged battery back into the Jeep , but no sign of it wanting to turn over , let alone fire up...There was a slight noise from under the bonnet to suggest the starter motor might be trying to do something , but it certainly wasn,t spinning....

It was too dam cold to go crawling about under the dam thing , so i thought i might turn to the Jeepy expert on this forum for some advice before freezing my ass off under the beast...

Prior to the problem the Jeep was starting just fine , and there was no sign of any problem when i parked it up in my garage...   I don,t pretend to be a car mechanic , but i do have some spannering experiance with motorcycles , and i am thinking this is a starter motor solenoid problem , unless anyone has any better ideas...     Could it be a wire off someplace , has something died due to the cold..?

Any advice would be very much appreciated....   Out here we got lots of snow , and the roads are not gritted , so i kinda depend on the Jeep to get around..   My Harley is not very good on snow and ice...and i am not very good on a bike in these silly tempretures...     happy 2010     

[daggie]

I would say the something is bloody frozen, ie condesation in the starter motor

[wildrover]

Now thats a possibility....i will check that out....perhaps i should have done what the Russians do to start the car in cold weather....Walk down a Moscow street on a very cold morning and you can warm your hands on all the fires that are lit under the cars to get em fired up...strange , i have never seen one go up in flames , but i guess it must happen...

I shall try a more western method to warm the starter , maybe a blowlamp or something...?

[Dave69]

might be the starter relay freezing at that temperature. warm it up and see what happens. put a cover over it or heat it up with the missuses hair drier

[wildrover]

might be the starter relay freezing at that temperature. warm it up and see what happens. put a cover over it or heat it up with the missuses hair drier

Thats a good idea , i was thinking how i could warm things up a bit without setting the Jeep on fire....I just hope all my extension leads are long enough to reach from the house to the garage..?

It has got a bit warmer thankfully , its now up to minus 4 , i might sit in the garden with a cold beer...!

[ferretjuggler]

Electric paint stripper is the most effective way I know to short of a propane torch

[wildrover]

Electric paint stripper is the most effective way I know to short of a propane torch

Even better....i will dig that out and toast some sense into it...Thank god there is only another 80 days of this weather... , not so long if you say it quickly...?

Can you get thermal undies for a Jeep cherokee...?

[wildrover]

I have just been out to have a poke at the beast...i cant even see the dam starter motor and solenoid..!   There was a bit of a blizzard blowing , and it was freezing so i did not spend long looking....Give me a clue somebody , is the starter on the right hand side of the engine , or the left...?

There ain,t much room in the engine bay is there , not like my old Landrover , you could open the bonnet and walk around the engine..!

I am guessing you get to the starter motor from underneath , no sign of it looking from the top...   maybe its fallen off , that might acount for the non starting i suppose...   bah humbug...!

[daggie]

offside underneath the turbo, a bastard to get to 

[The Smiths]

under the turbo and over xhaust front pipe - you can just hit the bottom of it with a stick.

What about towing it to loosen it up??

[wildrover]

Now why did they go and hide it there...?   I was begining to think it might have fallen off..!   Its currently minus 22 here so sod it for now...

Now if i can get that old Russian army flame thrower working i might be able to thaw it out without leaving the house...?

I should have bought a farm in the south of Spain maybe..?

Thanks for all the advice chaps...i will let you know if i get it thawed out , don,t hold your breath , it might be around March..!

[wildrover]

under the turbo and over xhaust front pipe - you can just hit the bottom of it with a stick.

What about towing it to loosen it up??


That could be worth a try...thats if its the starter motor thats frozen up....i guess it wont help if its the solenoid thats entered the ice age...

I did contemplate pouring some boiling water over it , and then running it till it gets warm and dry...after that its figuring out how to stop it freezing up again...

The Jeep sits in an open fronted garage , so i guess its going to be a matter of making sure i run the engine up every day and not leave it standing for a few days which i think is what caused the problem...     In the colder parts of Russia where it can get down to minus 45 they leave the car engines running all night as stopping it means its not never going to start again , but i can,t afford the fuel to do that....

[stuartness]

lots of experience of the bastarding starter motor in the diesel cherokee , i`ve had it out 6 times so far, aaaaarghhh!! i is an arse of a job, engine mountings off and buggered knuckles, extentions and bendy bits from the socket set definately required!!

the problems i had were solenoid related!

are you getting any noises from the starter at all when you are turning the key?

[wildrover]

I am pretty sure the starter is not doing anything at all , and i suspect the solenoid is in a coma also....I get some kind of click when i turn on the ignition from under the bonnet , but turning it further to start the Jeep does nothing other than dim the radio light...The thing was working perfectly well before the sudden severe drop in tempreture here , so i can,t help but think there is a connection to that...

At the moment its minus 22 here , so i don,t feel inclined to go crawling about under the thing to try and thaw out whatever is frozen up...

Its a bit of an inconveniance not having the Jeep mobile , as i live on the edge of a Polish forest and need it to get to the shops etc , but keeping warm is the priority at the moment , i am just  hoping there is a thaw soon....

[tag]

Hi, have you tried starting it with the headlights on?  if you see the lights dim the starter is drawing current and jambed if not it could be your immobiliser, i had a similar problem lately after it had been stood for a few days and froze over  it would click and the dash lights would dim slightly but not start i assumed the battery was down but did the same thing with a booster charger i was starting to think the starter was knackerd  but it was ok when i parked it up!   my jeep has a switch on the clutch pedal that stops it starting so i worked the switch with my hand waggled it around a bit and  tried to start the engine fired up and ran a bit erratic till it warmed up then i noticed the instrument cluster not working!! but that's another story. my jeep is a 2.5 petrol  but may help you 

[tree man]

Having also skinned my knuckles and contemplated using angle grinder when removing a Td starter motor I would make doubley sure that the battery is fully charged - it took a good 24hrs for my weedy charger to fully charge a 2.5td Daihatsu battery and given your chiily temps even more important. Poor earth lead from engine and general connections from battery to starter. I'm sure you have checked all this but more than once my mechanical genius  has been thrown by coincidence e.g it was all right last time I used it therefore it must be something very complicated that requires my mechanical genius and lots of dismantling - ....what do you mean the fuse has fallen out!

[Mike Pavelin]

Hit it with a hammer and try again.

[wildrover]

I have had my battery on charge a couple of days now , so it should be well charged up...I am just waiting now for a break in the weather to go and poke it again...I am hoping a friend who is an auto electrician can come over and check everything to eliminate any possible electrical problems , and then its just a matter of somehow thawing out the solenoid and starter....Having it hidden under the turbo where i can,t get at it is not going to make it easy....Once i have thawed it out , and got it running i then have to figure out how to prevent it having the same problem again....

[Dave69]

-22 is a killer for batteries and electrics so dont get too disheartened just yet. to save the battery wrap some cardboard around it and a towel over that to insulate it. you'd be amazed what that does. if you get a clicking that might be the starter solenoid trying to work. but if you have some moisture inside that has frozen then you wont get a connection. what you might be able to do is put some insulation around the starter temporarily while you wait for the outside temp to rise. this should stop it being directly affected by cold winds.

[wildrover]

LATEST UPDATE..Today its a warm minus 4 , i installed the battery which has been on charge for 24 hours , and is in good condition...and tried again...Nothing happening under the bonnet at all , no sound of the solenoid even trying to do anything...I turned on one of the internal lights , and the headlights , the only thing that dimmed when trying to start it was the light iluminating the radio..I guess this suggests that there is not any voltage getting to the starter and solenoid...?   I am definatly not an expert on electrical matters , so can anyone point me at whatever electrical wotsit is likely to have melted...?

[tag]

Hi, sounds like electrical prob,   just had a look at manual  it says for none starting check 30 amp fuse pdc,  clutch pedal switch, starter relay pdc, starter case ground, this is on the diesel section of the manual.  pdc is the fuse box in the engine bay. good luck and put your long johns on before you venture out!!  .......cya

[Tank]

Just an extra thought,do you know for definate the battery is good,i.e holding the charge?I had recent trouble with my BMW.One day start perfect as had done for last 12 months then next,nothing at all and had to jump start it,next day same.Turned out battery was toast,wouldnt hold a charge and battery was only 18 months old.Have you a friend with a spare or another battery yourself,just to try,even if just to rule it out of the equation

[wildrover]

Yeah , i am sure the battery is good , and i have tried it with another battery that is good....I checked both with a voltmeter before putting em in the Jeep....Even if the battery was a bit iffy you would think it at least make the solenoid do something....

When i put on the internal lights they are bright enough , as are the headlights , and neither go dim  when i am trying to start the beast...I am sure i have 12 volts there , but that 12 volts is not turning the starter motor or operating the solenoid...

I have checked all the relevant fuses , and taken out the starter relay and cleaned the contacts , but i have no idea if the relay is working or not....Looks like its going to stay dead untill an auto electrician can have a poke at it....

[Mike Pavelin]

Short the two large terminals in the starter relay socket together and see if the starter runs.

[wildrover]

Where would the starter relay socket be...?    If its near the solenoid that could be tricky...I can,t even see the dam starter and solenoid , let alone poke it in some way....I may be able to get to it under the Jeep , but in these tempretures i just don,t feel inclined to crawl about under it....

I am running short of supplies here , so at some point i am going to have to do something to get it going....I will have starved or froze to death before spring comes...

Ah , i remember those distant day when i could just call up the AA....