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[MudSurfer]

    however...

I fixed it...

Took out injectors 1,2 and 3 - cleaned them up, cleaned the nozzles, put on Land Rover TDV6 seals (thicker, with a better spray pattern), then turned myself into McGyver - took an old brake bleed kit, used the smaller pipes on it to go into the bleed valve, and then attached the other end to an old vacuum cleaner to pull the air and fuel through, left it running for about 20 mins, tried to start - nowt, then check the fuel was at the injectors - then tried again with ES and hey presto - started, running - a little lumpy to start as it choked on the last of the air, then running.

So - tools away, gazebo down cheese and coleslaw sarnie, and road test, with the ever reliable Toyota behind, with the tow ropes just in case....

Right, update - didn't drive it as I had decorsting to do, so left it on the drive with engine off.   Came back to it 3 hrs later, took a while to start, then moved it, left it 2 mins and it wouldn't start.  So, got the ES out and got it go again, and can see lots of big air bubbles going along the fuel line from the filter.  So, I've left it running in the yard for a while to see if they clear...

[gazjeep]

Did it work when all the bubbles disappeared ?

[MudSurfer]

Did it work when all the bubbles disappeared ?

I'll let you know when all the bubbles have disappeared.

I did find this morning, that the pipe connecting to the filter from the tank was loose - Mr RAC man had taken it off, didn't reconnect it to the filter either - but I've since pushed it right back to where it should have been and retightened the clip, so I'm off out to bleed it again with the modified hoover (it is a Hoover) and see how I get on....

[MudSurfer]

Right then .... got it going with the help of a new O ring from the 'local' Merc dealer, and the trusty vacuum cleaner to draw the fuel up, and still have air bubbles, little tiny ones, coming along the line between the fuel filter and the LP pump.  If I undo the bleed screw on the fuel filter, with engine running or not, the fuel goes back along the (now clear plastic) pipe back to the tank - and lots of air is seen going to the LP pump.  Tighten screw, fuel comes along happily from the tank, but still air bubbles present in the fuel line.

Switch engine off, the fuel starts to drain back to the tank....

What is going on???

Well, thanks to the overwhelming responses of all the Jeeping community....that I didn't get - I've ordered a new fuel filter, plus all the plastic fuel lines from Draytons Mercedes in Shrewsbury - a mere hours drive from home...so will fit those on Wednesday night or Thursday night, once home from Wolves and all my other chores are done....and see what happens.

[MudSurfer]

So here we are again....  I replaced all the fuel lines today, with nice new ones from Mercedes, so all the O rings, clips, connectors and lines are spot on.  The filter is a new Mercedes one, that's all fine, but....

I can still see air bubble from the filter to the LP pump, no idea where from.  If I loosen the bleed screw on the filter (with the engine running) the fuel disappears down towards the tank....why???

It will sit and run on the drive for hours, no problem at all - I took it for a test drive today, about 8 miles - and it cut out after about 3.5 miles, engine light on, no power, stalled then wouldn't restart.  A squirt of Easy Start and it's fine....stoppped again for 5 mins - wouldn't start.  Easy start squirt and away we go - got it home, no cut out, no engine light, so switched engine off then it wouldn't restart.  I don't get it, so I have to extend my hire car for another few days so I can get to work and back, while I work this out....

Any and all ideas very gratefully receieved....

[Panic mechanic!]

ok stupid idea but has it got the right fuel cap fitted to the tank, if its a not vented or blocked it will create a vacuum in the tank and draw the fuel back along the lines?

[Dutch]

Mud,

Far from saying.....told you so.....there is a time that a visit to the stealer is inevitable

How much more time & fluff will you sink into this before you torch it and lose 'the love' althogether

That would be a shame......WJ's do rock    honest !!

[MudSurfer]

ok stupid idea but has it got the right fuel cap fitted to the tank, if its a not vented or blocked it will create a vacuum in the tank and draw the fuel back along the lines?

Hi - yeah, it's the right one, came with the car - when I opened it just now it hissed at me....

And Dutch - I'll have to get it there.....I'll try and take it down to Wolves this week, armed with a can of Easy Start for when it stops on the motorway again...I just don't get it....

I tried starting it again, and it shakes.  Now I ran out of fuel with it less than a week after I got it, as the guage is......entertaining shall we say.  And, when I tried to start it then, it shook like it does now till the fuel came through and it worked, but I'm afraid of burning out the starter if I keep trying...

[Panic mechanic!]

er it shouldn't be hissing, run the engine with the cap off and see if there are bubbles

[MudSurfer]

er it shouldn't be hissing, run the engine with the cap off and see if there are bubbles

It went.....(how do you make the sound of air when you open the fuel cap?) er.....puffffft...??

I'll try that - what does it mean if there are?

[Panic mechanic!]

the fuel tank needs to draw in air from some where to replace the volume of fuel used, if it can't it will  suck the tank in til it stops the fuel  being sucked down the fuel line by the lift pump, then  your car cuts out , you release the fuel cap or it finds a way to suck in small amounts of air ( hence the bubbles)the tank expands and you start the process all over again  and you can restart it. so it sounds like you need a new fuel cap if thats the case.

[MudSurfer]

So - as a test, once I've got it started again with ES - could I run about a short while with the cap off, or at least loose to see if it stays running?

[Panic mechanic!]

yup. put the cap on but just turn it so it won't fall out, so thats its just loose in the filler neck.

[MudSurfer]

yup. put the cap on but just turn it so it won't fall out, so thats its just loose in the filler neck.

Thanks dooood, I'll give it a try...and let you know tomorrow...but, why would it sit on the drive and just run for ages, yet cut out on the road?

I may be able to answer my own question with some applied logic.....if at idle, I can see small air bubbles, then it's finding air from somewhere - however, under load, then this air supply isn't enough, so then the vacuum increases in the tank and then phuttt....stopped..  Does this make sense?

[Bishops Finger]

Mr Surfer...the Dutch dude is spot on...good wishes with it

[Panic mechanic!]

yup. put the cap on but just turn it so it won't fall out, so thats its just loose in the filler neck.

Thanks dooood, I'll give it a try...and let you know tomorrow...but, why would it sit on the drive and just run for ages, yet cut out on the road?

I may be able to answer my own question with some applied logic.....if at idle, I can see small air bubbles, then it's finding air from somewhere - however, under load, then this air supply isn't enough, so then the vacuum increases in the tank and then phuttt....stopped..  Does this make sense?

yup basically thats the principle, at idle you are only  sipping fuel but once driving you using a lot more so the volume of air in the tank cannot last ,once on the move that  air is soon used up so the engine starves itself

[wildrover]

It will be great if thats the answer to the problem...

We wait with baited breath...

[Dave The Sparky]

vacuum or not he shouldn't have air bubbles in his fuel........

[MudSurfer]

I haven't tried it yet - put little Stan to bed, put dogs to bed, checked the calves and lambs, tidied the kitchen, did some work, ironed a couple of shirts for work, made and ate dinner....and thought about it ...

If while driving, the engine is starved of fuel due to vacuum, then dies, I get that, but why is it then that I can start it within 2 mins with Easy Start and away we go again?  I understand the idle and load conditions, but when I went out today, it cut out while driving, engine light on, P1130 again, then wouldn't start.  Air filter cover off, squirt of ES and off we go again...then, got to the next village, stopped, engine off.  Back in 5 mins, no start - squirt of ES and off we go - all the way home....  If it's the vacuum, surely it would still have the vacuum problem when I started it so soon after it stopped?  It just shuddered while trying to crank it...I'm very confused now - maybe I should just go to bed and dream the answer?

[Dave The Sparky]

Where is the fuel pump on these engines? Is it in the tank or on the engine?

[Panic mechanic!]

I beleive it may have a lift pump fitted in the tank to supply diesel to the injector pump,all the pressure has to be in the tank is enough to equalise that to the lift pump  that is not a high pressure pump or greater for it to starve the
 engine.
once the engine  stops the pressure will soon drop and fuel will return up the pipe.

Any way just try it and see what happens, all you are doing by using easy start is priming the fuel system with a more volatile fuel, its nothing special in itself but if used a lot if can  mess things up eventually.

[MudSurfer]

The fuel system, as I understand it, works like this.

There is a low pressure pump attached to the block, mechanically driven, that draws the fuel from the tank - so keeping it in the line from the tank to the filter is imperative.  It comes from the tank supply pipe to the filter, from the filter to the LP pump, which then pumps it to the High Pressure (Bosch) pump, which then charges the rail.

The connection on the back of the HP pump seems to be for system bleeding, as it connects to a T connector from the pipe between the LP and HP pumps.  The other connection on the HP pump goes all the way to the other end of the rail, which I assume also collects the over run from each of the injectors, as the run off pipe goes to this end of the rail too - then it goes back along to the filter, then back to the tank.

So when the engine is cranked, the LP and HP pumps turn with the impellers connected in the block, so fuel gets drawn from the tank, through the filter, into the LP pump, to the HP pump then into the rail and injectors.

There is no lift pump in the tank in the CRD.

So - it is feasible that the filler cap could be a problem, but having said that, every car I've ever owned goes pfffft when you open the filler cap.  I'll see if I have time to try it tonight, not sure I will as it's my wedding anniversary so unlikely to get out....

Don't want to risk taking it to Wolves tomorrow....so I'll have to update when I can.

[Panic mechanic!]

Just do it! and see if it helps.

[MudSurfer]

Just do it! and see if it helps.

I will tonight - can't risk it on the way to work, it's a 130 mile round trip, and I don't want to have to call the RAC to get me home again....so I'll do it later this evening and see how I get on...

[Panic mechanic!]