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[mobility]

I recently noticed that in the UK some Jeeps came with diesel engines.   Here in Canada we have not had that option but it is very interesting and have a few questions.

I was wondering if anyone had done a petrol to diesel swap and what your impressions are of it.  

What is the 2.5 TD like in terms of horsepower/torque, reliability, fuel economy, lifespan?

Does Chrysler make the engine or source it from someone else?

What transmission/transfer case combo is used with this engine?

Over here a lot of people would like a diesel but there are so few donor vehicles that it is a pretty expensive conversion.  Excuse all the questions but I'm thinking that shipping one over here might be a better option than paying the premium for something that came out of a bread truck.

[dtooth]

the diesel used in UK cherrys are an italian marine diesel VM

http://ccgi.vmspecialists.plus.com/rele ... 80bd5d979f

[bill99]

One thing to consider is that as far as I know there is no auto box on the diesels here.

If anyone is interested I happened to be in sports car breakers in Newbridge near Edinburgh and noticed a diesel XJ with the engine still looking complete.

Bloody expensive breakers though, I avoid them as a matter of principle, only as a last resort.

bill

[isle of man]

auto diesel is available it's on the kj and jk...

[Mike Pavelin]

I belive there are some pretty strict rules about shipping and using not previously type approved vehicles in Canada, but these are relaxed for models over 10 years old so your best bet would be a '97 or '98 XJ from Europe (this would be left hand drive with the KM/H speedometer. Anyway, there are now a lot of different diesels available over here.......

The first diesel Jeep to be offered in the UK was the XJ in 1995. It had the 2.5TD VM Motori engine with AX15 transmission and 231 transfer case. Previously in Europe (and I believe in the US for a while) the XJ could be had with a 2.1 litre TD from a Renault van which could well have been used to deliver bread. The 4 cylinder 2.5VM (and it's 2.4 cousin) were used by several other manufacturers. Performance was good but early versions up to '96 were plagued with cylinder head failures, causing coolant loss and overheating. This was usually at 60001 miles (they had a 60000 warranty) and very expensive to fix. '97 on versions were more reliable although not immune to the problem. In 1997 and 1998 the ZG (our ZJ) could also be had with the 2.5TD. The '97 had AX 15 and 231, the '98 had AX15 and 249. The 2.5 TD XJ continued until 2001, the WG (our WJ) was launched in '99 but in 2000 was offered with a 3.1 litre 5 cylinder VM TD which was identical in design to the  4 cylinder unit except for the obvious extra cylinder. It was fitted with the 44RE auto transmission and 247 transfer case. 2002 saw the introduction of the 5 cylinder 2.7 CRD in the WG. This came from Mercedes-Benz along with the NAG1 transmission, still with the 247 T/case. In the meantime, the KJ had been launched in '02 with the 2.5 DOHC CRD from VM. This had a NV3500 transmission and 231 transfer case. Later the 2.8CRD which was also sold in the US came along with 45RFE Auto transmission and 242 and the 2.5 was then dropped for 2.8 with 6 speed mercedes manual and 231.
2005 saw the WH (WK) with Mercedes 3.0V6 CRD, also to be fitted in Commander and sold in the US. By this time Jeep had dropped all petrol engine models in the UK except the Hemi 5.7 and SRT8. Today we have JK and soon KK which run a new generation VM 2.8CRD, The WK with the Mercedes 3.0V6 CRD and the Patriot and Compass have a Volkswagen diesel.

[Carlos Fandango]

:lol:

[mack]

Bloody expensive breakers though, I avoid them as a matter of principle, only as a last resort.

bill

SCB?

I've used them recently and though they were ok  

[JamesH]

I believe the 'bread van' comment relates to the aluminium panel vans used in the US and Canada for bread (and other) deliveries that is fitted with a Cummins 4cyl diesel engine.

I think Dr Mike has given the definitive answer. I can only add that when I looked into taking my XJ over to Canada I thought the age limit for non-approved vehicles was 15 years.

[mobility]

Thanks for the comprehensive rundown Mike.  I wasn't thinking so much of importing an entire vehicle as crating up a motor and parts for an engine swap to my existing YJ.  I have a contact in Belfast who could do some of the leg work on that side for me.

The Jeep currently has a 4.0 with AX15/231 so the 97/98 2.5TD looks interesting since you mention the new head design and it came mated with the AX15.  

As swaps go (since I'm obviously unfamiliar with these engines) do you think this would be worthwhile and relatively straight forward?  Are you aware of anyone who has done it?  I'm thinking with the easy access to parts that you guys have, if you're not doing it then it's probably a bad idea.

===========

PS Yes, Canada is 15 year for importing a vehicle.

The popular bread truck motor swap I referred to is an Izuzu 4BT.


Thanks all

[Mike Pavelin]

To swap in a '97 on VM shouldn't be too difficult from a mechanical angle, but the electrics are a different matter as it has a Bosch 'fly by wire' system. To make it work you would need the XJ wiring harness, the Jetc controller from the XJ, the Bosch diesel controller from the XJ. For '98 onwards models UK XJs of that vintage also had SKIS, you would also have to use the SKIS module (with matched keys) and the instrument cluster as all the compnents have to be present and correct before the engine will start. You could possibly use a pre '97 harness, fuel pump, bosch controller and Jtec controller on a later engine, these had a conventional cable throttle with electronic timing, which may simplify the job slightly while keeping the more durable engine design.
Do you not have small Toyota/Nissan/Isuzu pickups with diesels over there? they might hold an easier soloution for you.

[eastryjeep]

Thats interesting - Cummins also used to use a "4BT" product code, it's a 4 cyl, 3.9 litre, turbocharged engine without aftercooler.
The Cummins 6B (5.9L) & 6C (8.3L) family of diesels were used in 4X4 trucks in the US for a while too, so you might get a local donor that way, and avoid any shipping costs.
Cummins product codes for smaller IL engines were:
4B, 6B, 6C = engine series (numeral denotes number of cylinders, and displacement as above).
"T" = Turbocharged
"A" = Aftercooled
So a "6CTA" is a 6 cyl, 8.3 litre, turbocharged & aftercooled animal! Good for any Jeep if you can fit the bastard in.

[mobility]

Oops!  you're right 4BT is Cummings  (popular also) the other one is a 4BD.

[JamesH]

Do you have any diesel Japanese trucks - Toyota Landcruiser, Nissan Patrol, any of the pick-ups??

Where abouts in Canada are you? I got the impression when I was over there in the winter that diesels weren't very popular because of the cold weather problems they can have??

[mobility]

Do you have any diesel Japanese trucks - Toyota Landcruiser, Nissan Patrol, any of the pick-ups??

Where abouts in Canada are you? I got the impression when I was over there in the winter that diesels weren't very popular because of the cold weather problems they can have??

Near Toronto.

I had a VW Golf diesel and never a problem in the winter.  When the temperature really dipped it might have been necessary to plug in the block heater for 30+ minutes but having said that, it never left me stranded.
We don't have Nissan patrols but it is possible to find the odd landcruiser with diesel.  There have been very few vehicles over here that run diesel with the exception of VW and some older MBs so they are pretty hard to come across.

[JamesH]

I have relatives to the east of Toronto (Bowmanville/Clarington) and it definitely gets cold there  

I was thinking that it might be better to swap in an engine that you can get spares a little easier for. The 2.5 VM engine tends to need looking after and a lot of owners here seem to be replacing parts fairly frequently (compared to 4.0 drivers). I don't know a great deal about the engine but it doesn't have the best reputation.

[bill99]

Bloody expensive breakers though, I avoid them as a matter of principle, only as a last resort.

bill

SCB?

I've used them recently and though they were ok  

mack regards SCB it’s all relative I suppose, they do have a big yard and more likely to find what you want, but every time I go there looking for something it is 3 or 4 times the cost compared to my local scrappy. I’ve been going there on and off since the late 70’s, and it’s only recently that I’ve noticed the sometimes glaring differences in costs, especially on something like an engine or gearbox.



bill

[Dave69]

if you can fit a cummins engine it would be better than the vm lump, plus spares might be more reaily available

[mobility]

I have relatives to the east of Toronto (Bowmanville/Clarington) and it definitely gets cold there  

I was thinking that it might be better to swap in an engine that you can get spares a little easier for. The 2.5 VM engine tends to need looking after and a lot of owners here seem to be replacing parts fairly frequently (compared to 4.0 drivers). I don't know a great deal about the engine but it doesn't have the best reputation.

Ha! small world.  We lived in Bowmanville for 12 years and it gets pretty cold but the lake helps since you go 20 mile north away from it and you'll drop another 5 to 10 degrees usually.

They say "no guts - no glory" but they also say "common sence is the better part of valour" and I think that my best bet after all of the info you guys provided is to work on something else.  

Looking at the electrical modifications involved plus the inaccessibility to parts could turn a project like this into a long drawn out ordeal.  I can forsee get hung up needing additional parts and waiting a long time to get them in.  At least now I am making an informed decision instead of it always being in the back of my mind to "just ship a UK diesel over".

Again all.
Thanks for the replys.

Cheers

[Tragic]

It's up to you at the end of the day, but swapping a 4.0 for a crap Italian diesel would probably be a real disappointment.
 I have considered swapping a diesel into my YJ (it was a 2.5) and decided that any diesel worth using to lug around that much weight would have to be either a) far too heavy, b) far too complicated with fly by wire systems c) far too expensive or d) far too agricultural. Or all of the above :-D

Just my honest opinion