Birty Dastards Jeep Club

Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: kinger on April 19, 2010, 04:17:51 PM

Title: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: kinger on April 19, 2010, 04:17:51 PM
selected 4 wheel drive today on the beach at weston super mare, light came on saying temporary, but do not have any drive to the front wheels, tried then selecting 4 wheel low, still no front drive, tried the lever in all positions but still no front drive . had to be rescued by my mate with his landrover and winch. how embarasing :icon_redface:. any ideas guys
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: tim_aka_tim on April 19, 2010, 04:24:22 PM
Is the front prop turning? Are there any nasty noises?
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: kinger on April 19, 2010, 04:35:28 PM
no nasty noises at all, and is fine in 2 wheel. got underneath and in 2wd the front prop can be turned by hand, in 4wh the front prop is locked, 4wlo the prop is locked, position N, front prop turns. but when i try to drive in 4wd h or lo. the front wheels are not being driven. im not able to check fluid at the moment as dont have a tool to undo bung.any one had the same
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: Mike Pavelin on April 19, 2010, 08:19:02 PM
If you can turn the front prop with both front wheels on the ground the front diff ot a front halfshaft is bust.
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: kinger on April 20, 2010, 09:05:04 AM
thanks mike that makes sense, thats why when i engage the transfer box i cant turn front shaft by hand, therby proving the transfer box is working. oh dear that looks like a new front axle, anyone know if that is straight forward and what to watch out for
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: The Smiths on April 20, 2010, 10:54:07 AM
If yours is a 2.5Td - then you need to buy one the same to keep ratios the same


I also know someone (me) that may have a spare :003: :003: - pm being sent :icon_winkle:

but a distance away from that beach :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: kinger on April 20, 2010, 11:04:12 AM
managed to get myself a front axle sorted out its from a 2.5 td so should be straight forward, all i have to do is find the time to do it as i have my boat engine to put back together as well. it never rains just pours. still only 38 days and going back to cornwall hooray
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: sprintagogo on April 20, 2010, 11:07:27 AM
You need to find what is broken 1st before you start swapping bits/axles. You will be mighty dissapointed if you find the problem is still there after you think you have changed the broken part. If it is just a snapped half-shaft then swapping that would be simpler but if the diff is broken then a fresh axle is the simplest and cheapest solution. The only thing is, if it were the diff then I would expect some crunching and banging.

Can you definitely turn the front prop all the way around when in 2wd (not just a 1/4 turn which can be slack in the diff)?
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: scrw on April 20, 2010, 11:47:42 AM
if your TC is okay then stick in 4wd and lift ONE front wheel at a time, if all okay it shouldn't rotate more than 1/8th of a turn, if it does it points to that 1/2 shaft or a diff issue. TBH if either are gone it is fairly obvious, "should" be making some noise
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: Bubba on April 20, 2010, 11:48:50 AM
yup you still have not found the problem
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: DRUNKEN DIXIE on April 20, 2010, 01:22:09 PM
Maybe something to do with the vacuum ball for the 4wd.
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: sprintagogo on April 20, 2010, 01:29:28 PM
Maybe something to do with the vacuum ball for the 4wd.

There is no vacuum 4x4 system on the Cherokees of this age. The vacuum ball found behind the bumper of a Cherokee is for the aircon and cruise controll and maybe engine control reasons.
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: DRUNKEN DIXIE on April 20, 2010, 03:30:32 PM
Ok thanks.
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: kinger on April 20, 2010, 04:08:10 PM
thanks guys for feed back , there is no noises, no grinding or knocking. in 2wd i can spin the prop by hand with no effort. i can drive it ok in 2wd, and also change into 4wd high whilst moving and no noises and light comes on saying part time.
bubba do you have a idea, you reply seemed cryptic !!!, going to whip the front prop off then try engaging 4wd if the front coupling  turns on the transfer box then that would prove that it is working.
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: scrw on April 20, 2010, 04:44:08 PM
hmmm, spinning the prop with no effort/noise in 2wd sounds like pinion gear has snapped, only seen it once before, even with shed teeth you expect to feel/hear grinding.

go on, pop off the diff cover and post up a photo
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: scrw on April 20, 2010, 04:48:29 PM
going to whip the front prop off then try engaging 4wd if the front coupling  turns on the transfer box then that would prove that it is working.

don't need to take the prop off to do that, just stick it in PT 4wd with all 4 wheels on the ground, you shouldn't be able to spin the front prop
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: Bubba on April 20, 2010, 05:15:03 PM
yup
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: Lornaben on April 20, 2010, 05:36:34 PM
I may be wrong ... but if both front wheels are on the ground (no free wheeling hubs) then you wont be able to turn the front prop by hand whether 4wd or 2wd is selected ...  :017:
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: scrw on April 20, 2010, 05:37:31 PM
exactly, hence me saying it could be a bust pinion gear.

he did say..

in 2wd i can spin the prop by hand with no effort.
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: Mike Pavelin on April 20, 2010, 07:21:31 PM
Has it ever worked? someone might have had a problem and taken the spider gears out of the diff to mask the problem.
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: kinger on April 20, 2010, 07:24:48 PM
if i put it in to 4wd h or lo then i cannot turn propshaft . i guess that is because im now connected to the rear axle, put it back in 2wd and can spin prop fast enough to hear the fluid in the transfer book.
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: scrw on April 20, 2010, 07:27:12 PM
yep, sounds like TC is okay, go on, drop the diff cover, we will share the pain  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: Lornaben on April 20, 2010, 08:04:57 PM
exactly, hence me saying it could be a bust pinion gear.

he did say..

in 2wd i can spin the prop by hand with no effort.

Indeed, but didn't say whether it was up in the air or not. Thats why I said 'both front wheels are on the ground'
 :003:
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: kinger on April 20, 2010, 09:47:23 PM
hey bubba, was that a yup that you do have a idea ????? and if you do can you enlighten me ???
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: Dave The Sparky on April 20, 2010, 09:56:18 PM
Easy one this
1:Put jeep in 2wd and jack the front end so both wheels off floor
2:spin one wheel and the other wheel should spin the opposite way if not diff jiggered or if both go same way you have some sort of locker installed!!!
3:If step 2 seems okay lower one wheel to floor or have mate hold it then spin the opposite wheel and that should make prop spin instead if prop dosent spin diff jiggered.
4:post pics of mess in diff casing to satisfy this bloodthirsty lot.



Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: scrw on April 20, 2010, 10:50:03 PM
post pics of mess in diff casing to satisfy this bloodthirsty lot.

 :iagree:

 :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: Dave69 on April 21, 2010, 09:37:06 AM
if your spinning the front prop with the front on the ground (in 2wd) then something is bust in the front diff.

if you can't turn the front prop in 4wd then that is normal as you linked to the rear prop.


Doesn't matter realy about lifting each of the front wheels and turning them just take the diff cover off and have a look at the ring and pinion and diff itself for loss of teeth and bits of metal.
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: The Smiths on April 21, 2010, 02:15:13 PM
I wouldn't bother looking in the diff just change the axle - its fecked either way

Then pull the hubs and see if worth keeping for spares
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: kinger on May 15, 2010, 03:37:31 PM
it had been doctered some bright spark had removed the crown wheel(why would you do that, its loads of work), therfore there was nothing for the pinion to drive, fitted another axle , and hey presto it worked fine, no noises from transfer box . all working well, guy comes up to me on beach and says i like that jeep and would i like to sell it. he makes me a offer and  gives me twice what i paid for it, as i knew of another couple of 4wd vehicles for sale, i sell it. was going to get another isuzu trooper, but no , ive been bitten by the jeep bug, and bought another xj to play with
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: scrw on May 15, 2010, 10:41:53 PM
 :icon_super:
Title: Re: lost 4 wheel drive on my xj
Post by: Bubba on May 15, 2010, 10:50:59 PM
result