Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: WillCJ on January 22, 2012, 10:34:22 PM
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OK, I would love a V8 in my CJ7, currently a reasonable but tired 258 on rebuilt 999 and new TC. I am a bit worried about too much power (and fuel!) with a 'proper ' engine so considering putting in a Rover (AKA Buick?) good old tried and tested thing, may even work up to fuel injection if no major technical issues. should rev well for the gearing (4.10 on 33's) and make the right noises.
I think I know where this is going to go, but anyone any knowledge on this conversion, I have not worked on Rover V8 and not seen one close for a while, but seem plenty on e-bay and looks at least as tho the starter motor is in a similar position, not searched for kits either, and thanks to all for input on other threads so far.
Cheers.
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the only good thing about the rover is its light and efi would be the only one worth having
a jeep v8 bolts right in with factory parts and gives all the power you can need and yes the tranny will stand it no probs
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if you use a Early range rover 727 box change the output shaft and rear housing from the 999 [tf6]you can use the range rover bell housing adapter
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the only good thing about the rover is its light and efi would be the only one worth having
a jeep v8 bolts right in with factory parts and gives all the power you can need and yes the tranny will stand it no probs
Part of my reasoning is the light weight, also cheap for parts and use less fuel (guessing)
Couldn'nt get my head round the factory option 304 having same or only a little more horsepower than the 258, but some variations on that engine I see, and of course the 360, will that bolt in? be heavy tho?
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bolt in, and not that heavy, me and bro lifted and carried one without injury :003:
this dood has been tryin to sell this for about a yr, daftly overpriced but he must be well ready for a decent offer
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cj7-jeep-amc-360-v8-hotrod-kitcar-/250976982522?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a6f64d5fa#ht_500wt_1202 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cj7-jeep-amc-360-v8-hotrod-kitcar-/250976982522?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a6f64d5fa#ht_500wt_1202)
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almost no diff in the weight power output are net hp so look weak and as for thirst dont bet on it
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if you use a Early range rover 727 box change the output shaft and rear housing from the 999 [tf6]you can use the range rover bell housing adapter
I looked in to that before I rebuilt my 999, but still end up using an adapter plate, should not be too hard to make one for the 999, tho the RR 727 was a ford?
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ford ? nope 727 is v similar big bro to the 999
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RR 3 speed auto is a Chrysler [tf8 ]
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almost no diff in the weight power output are net hp so look weak and as for thirst dont bet on it
Hi yeah cheers, good info, looked at that one on ebay before, but even if he takes an offer its a bit too much£'s, and tho it has agood spec list I am not all that trusting of other peoples rebuilds, its alot of dosh to risk. I def need to look in to this option some more cheers.
Saw this while on there....http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WADE-R034-SUPERCHARGER-ROVER-V8-KIT-CAR-HOT-ROD-GT40-/230732964918?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5799180166909761409 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WADE-R034-SUPERCHARGER-ROVER-V8-KIT-CAR-HOT-ROD-GT40-/230732964918?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5799180166909761409)
ouch!
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RR 3 speed auto is a Chrysler [tf8 ]
thats it .. remember now, some big chrysler v8's out there too
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holy crap that is expensive :icon_eek:
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if your looking to super charge you might as well go 360
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I kinda look at rover engines in a cj like most jeepers look at the vm....... don't do it!
I know 360's are thin on the ground but if you look hard enough they are out there.And they are a lot cheaper to rebuil than the rover.
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Thats very true, they are out there, only reason i stopped lookin and sellin was that the arse fell out the market so only way i coud turn a profit was sellin in bulk to the German but havin loads of engines in ya drive gets tedious
CJ6 dood on here was sellin one that i had sold him coz he had a change of plan, have a search in the exchange section
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the rover v8 is a nice engine for flatfenders
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chevy vortec is better ,and produces more
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agreed but years ago before vortec and rover got the v8 it was a done swap with the original buick lump
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actually thinking about it doesn't the 4.0 produce more power as well?
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Got a feeling early RR V8s only produced 135bhp................. cos thats what they put in the MG V8.. :hysterical: (yes I had one) :jpshakehead:
SD1 Vitesse stuff produced 190 before tweaks...................
So standard 4 litre TJ YJ cherry GC stuff is up there already without too much faffing...........just a thought :icon_twisted:
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I wonder if there's a medical term for fear of a "proper" yank built V8?
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Tis a medical condition.....known as
'The Curse of the Buick Boat-Anchor'
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I wouldn't think it was worth the effort putting a Rover V8 in, if you are after V8 power find a Chevy, more power than the Rover, easier to find than an AMC. Chevy will be lighter than the AMC V8, probably about the same as the straight 6, cheaper for bits as well.
If you want an AMC V8 a bit quick, try here http://www.dbmotors.net/10283/info.php?p=3&pno=0 (http://www.dbmotors.net/10283/info.php?p=3&pno=0)
I have know idea how much they would charge, but they have a few by the looks of it.
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the rover v8 is a nice engine for flatfenders
We might need to have a chat about that at some point.
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Forget the Rover V8
Did you see this on DB motors?
425 injected Cadillac engine with TH400 auto box!!!!!!!!
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i guess if you put a rover engine in, you should really join a lardy club :hysterical:
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don't think theres anything wrong with putting a rover v8 in a jeep, but it does feel wrong when there are so many yank options available, as said if AMC is not an option then Chevy 350 has got to be the next best thing.
this to me is not to do with power or compatibility but more to do with the essence of jeeping, rover power just sounds wrong and I honestly think it will devalue the Jeep for most purest
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Keep the six, and fit this to it
http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff-sale/nitrous-express-single-port-wet-kit-uk-custom-painted-bottle-extras-50836 (http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff-sale/nitrous-express-single-port-wet-kit-uk-custom-painted-bottle-extras-50836)
or if you want a Rover, £175 SD1 here
http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff-sale/rover-v8-3-5-sd1-engine-bristol-%A3175-48344 (http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff-sale/rover-v8-3-5-sd1-engine-bristol-%A3175-48344)
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rover v8 is to wide and to long for a flat fender will go in with body mods small block Chevy or ford are easier 4.3 Chevy fits with out moving rad
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See! you are all getting excited, lol.
actually thinking about it doesn't the 4.0 produce more power as well?
my fall-back plan, 4.0 should bolt straight in, sort the injection, plenty of power for me, could even 'stroke' it as I have a 258 with a cracked block n the garden. but I would like a V8 sond track sometime in my life!
I wonder if there's a medical term for fear of a "proper" yank built V8?
I was thinking chevy there! king of the V8's, but more power than I can afford breakages from!
don't think theres anything wrong with putting a rover v8 in a jeep, but it does feel wrong when there are so many yank options available, as said if AMC is not an option then Chevy 350 has got to be the next best thing.
this to me is not to do with power or compatibility but more to do with the essence of jeeping, rover power just sounds wrong and I honestly think it will devalue the Jeep for most purest
believe me, its not that pure anymore! but I do agree with the sentiment tho, but there are a lot of modern alternatives out there.....just be glad I am not going diesel!
Ok, I am going to look around, so, 4.0 jeep , AMC V8 304 bolt straight in, any others? and then whatever next easiest to mate up too the 999, oh and I am ignoring the 'lardy club' comment panic!
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Ok time to through my 2 cents worth at it,
I looked into the old RR V8 for my rebuild at the early stage as I thought too it was easier than the whole AMC setup, but I was very very wrong in my assumption. The only usable RR V8 is the 3.5l as the rest have only been bored out and crack the bores very very easily, apparently most on the road have split blocks or hair line cracks just not known or cared about (this was from a RR V8 specialist for racing setups). So this limits the power output significantly. Then is the issue with boxes and transfers, both on the RR are inferior to the old AMC/Yank stuff, yes there are plenty of parts but you will fnd most of the profesional trialists and offroaders will modify there RR V8's to run Yank drivetrains. Once you have the RR V8 you then have to make up engine mounts/gearbox mounts and then require to have the propshafts custom made. Also unsure if the headers will foul on anything.
I therefore went down the AMC route and with BD's help found a nice 360. Trust me this is plenty of power for a light weight Jeep, mine has no probs spinning 33" wheels in the dry. Have no idea about fuel economy but is any V8 much better than another, you are probably only talking 1-2MPG diff.
If you are seriously looking for an AMC V8 I could be able to help you out as I found one over here in Ireland the other weekend (not 100% sure on size yet as I'm waiting on him to confirm), freight is not to bad (circa £90) and I would just want a little to cover my cost for removing it from the vehicle and picking it up.
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best rover engine p5b or p6 3500s
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Seems a good offer from Irish
and altho 304's are dirt cheap that is coz you may as well go 360
(or 401 :icon_super: )
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Keep the six, and fit this to it
http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff-sale/nitrous-express-single-port-wet-kit-uk-custom-painted-bottle-extras-50836 (http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff-sale/nitrous-express-single-port-wet-kit-uk-custom-painted-bottle-extras-50836)
or if you want a Rover, £175 SD1 here
http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff-sale/rover-v8-3-5-sd1-engine-bristol-%A3175-48344 (http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/stuff-sale/rover-v8-3-5-sd1-engine-bristol-%A3175-48344)
No, not going nitrous! and pity the sd1 engine isn't a bit closer.could have been worth a look for fit in the CJ.
Ok time to through my 2 cents worth at it,
I looked into the old RR V8 for my rebuild at the early stage as I thought too it was easier than the whole AMC setup, but I was very very wrong in my assumption. The only usable RR V8 is the 3.5l as the rest have only been bored out and crack the bores very very easily, apparently most on the road have split blocks or hair line cracks just not known or cared about (this was from a RR V8 specialist for racing setups). So this limits the power output significantly. Then is the issue with boxes and transfers, both on the RR are inferior to the old AMC/Yank stuff, yes there are plenty of parts but you will fnd most of the profesional trialists and offroaders will modify there RR V8's to run Yank drivetrains. Once you have the RR V8 you then have to make up engine mounts/gearbox mounts and then require to have the propshafts custom made. Also unsure if the headers will foul on anything.
I therefore went down the AMC route and with BD's help found a nice 360. Trust me this is plenty of power for a light weight Jeep, mine has no probs spinning 33" wheels in the dry. Have no idea about fuel economy but is any V8 much better than another, you are probably only talking 1-2MPG diff.
If you are seriously looking for an AMC V8 I could be able to help you out as I found one over here in Ireland the other weekend (not 100% sure on size yet as I'm waiting on him to confirm), freight is not to bad (circa £90) and I would just want a little to cover my cost for removing it from the vehicle and picking it up.
thanks for the input irishcj6, I half hoped someone would say; 'oh yes, easy fit, just make up a conversion plate and mounts, swap the TC on to the flex plate, off you go'
I am not really after a big HP increase, 258 is OK'(ish), and first thought is 4.0 jeep engine, plenty of power and relatively efficient on fuel, and won't flood every time I hit a climb too fast!.
No rush for anything at the moment, (tho I do have a rear crank oil leak I think)
Saw this as well....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HOT-ROD-1968-MORRIS-OXFORD-/150740012514?_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5821394911921795645 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HOT-ROD-1968-MORRIS-OXFORD-/150740012514?_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5821394911921795645)
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Time for the one legged arse kicking competition.........
In 2003 I was offered a Hotchkiss........ for £3500............ I had 2 YJs in the drive and was moving house...... so that was a no.
OK cut to what we know now......... Hotchkiss owned now by Birty CF attendee ...but when i saw it first was called Wicked Willys and was yellow...then cammo.........
Had the Buick /`Rover 216/3.5 in it:gearbox a T98 and Dana18 with 3.8? or nearby ratio........ Dana 44 and dana 30 with 4.88s and lockers back and front....... a wet dream????? Maybe......
Basically to say the Rover fitted really well...no probs.
Also know a guy with a 350 and TH700R4 and dana300 in a standard wheelbase flattie..... and at 6'2" I can sit in it and feel comfortable.
See?...Cut and weld and things can be possible :icon_super: :icon_super: :icon_super:
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No rush for anything at the moment, (tho I do have a rear crank oil leak I think)
check the compression before you do anything on that engine, my 258 dropped oil from the rear crank seal, and still did after the seal was changed, problem was bad rings pressurising the sump and pushing the oil out, good news is if compression is ok the rear crank seal is a cheap easy job, seal was under a tenner and just had to remove the sump and the rear crank carrier, half the seal in the carrier the other half will punch out with a drift, fitting is reverse
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Just a thought, an engine you do not see fitted into CJs very often over here are Ford Windsor V8s. They have good power outputs, are lighter than AMC and Chevy V8, narrow so should be an easy fit. You do see them advertised second hand (ex Bronco/Mustang?). You also see them with EFI.Parts are cheaper than a AMC.
I think they would make a good choice, the only issue would be the transmission, I don't think the Ford autos are much good? (unlike there manual trans), so you would have to get an adapter to your Jeep auto. Also if you had one from a car, you have got to get hold of a sump from a truck version so it will clear the front axle.
Has any one fitted one in the UK?
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click here (http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/engine_to_trans_adapters.htm)
there is another company that from memory are well rated but can't remember them
a few of the manual boxes used in CJs were made by ford so may be easier than first expected
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a few of the manual boxes used in CJs were made by ford so may be easier than first expected
CJ7s were fitted with a Ford SR4 gear box in the 80s, but they are rubbish. Ford T18 or NP435 would be the one get if you wanted a manual box?.
Ignition system on later CJs is Motorcraft (Ford), would that also help with conversion to Ford V8 ?
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This is reason enough to get a Ford V8
Bullitt Car Chase (Full Scene) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWgR2vYE2_o#)
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think I prefer chevy.........
Ferrari vs Jeep Cj-7 0-156mph (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjDHne15RVw#)
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Bullit clip :icon_super:, that silver CJ tho is awsome, seen loads of clips for that, a true 'sleeper'.
Really thinking of engine to go on the current set up, (unless whole rig shows up) plenty of work just trying to keep things right for a 4" lift and 33's.
No rush for anything at the moment, (tho I do have a rear crank oil leak I think)
check the compression before you do anything on that engine, my 258 dropped oil from the rear crank seal, and still did after the seal was changed, problem was bad rings pressurising the sump and pushing the oil out, good news is if compression is ok the rear crank seal is a cheap easy job, seal was under a tenner and just had to remove the sump and the rear crank carrier, half the seal in the carrier the other half will punch out with a drift, fitting is reverse
Thanks for the heads up there, Nosebolt, it does breath a bit so may be half the reason, but also been dipped in mud/water alot!. If I can change the seal without taking the engine out then thats no prob, especially as the 'box has been out for a few months, typical!
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My 4.2 started dying a couple of years ago so i started looking at V8 options. Ended up buying a donor 4.0L i6 and building up a 4.6 stroker with a 258 crank. Used all the 4.2 ancillaries and v belts etc so it bolted straight back in easily. With the the fuel injection and the extra low end torque it trans formed the jeep. It will easilly peg the CJ speedo if your brave enough. Apart from the pistons, wiring loom, injectos and ecu, you can use all standard parts.
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very interesting you must be one of the few in the uk to have built a working stroker must cj owners would find the simplicity of bolt in power from a v8 to be a better route
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I stroked my TJ and have been quit happy with it. It was much easier then transplanting a V8 and enough of a power increase to make me happy. It's not a rocket and lacks the V8 sound but it can push 36's around without straining any more.
You should be able to pick up a cheap 4.0 complete with wiring and ecu cheap enough. This alone will be a great improvement over the 4.2.
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My 4.2 started dying a couple of years ago so i started looking at V8 options. Ended up buying a donor 4.0L i6 and building up a 4.6 stroker with a 258 crank. Used all the 4.2 ancillaries and v belts etc so it bolted straight back in easily. With the the fuel injection and the extra low end torque it trans formed the jeep. It will easilly peg the CJ speedo if your brave enough. Apart from the pistons, wiring loom, injectos and ecu, you can use all standard parts.
To be honest, I was thinking just put in a 4.0I, and I also read up on stroker engine mod a bit as I have a '78 4.2 with a cracked block in the garden. Nice to hear from someone who 'dunnit', especially the you used the injection, may have to qiuz you a bit more on that.
I stroked my TJ and have been quit happy with it. It was much easier then transplanting a V8 and enough of a power increase to make me happy. It's not a rocket and lacks the V8 sound but it can push 36's around without straining any more.
You should be able to pick up a cheap 4.0 complete with wiring and ecu cheap enough. This alone will be a great improvement over the 4.2.
I was thinking about a complete car (XJ) to be sure it ran and had all the bits, including HP fuel pump. As you say plenty of power and still jeep iconic engine for the purists!
Question for all, Do you have to run a CAT with the injection set up? and, thanks all for input so far.
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nope you don't need to run a cat but you will need the later plastic type fuel tank.And yes I am going that route with an early yj that has the 4.2 in it.... either that or the v8 :lol_hitting: