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[gregwho]

Hey Guys,

This is going to sound daft but I need some help identifiying a part on my Jeep.  I had a leaking front pinoin seal so ordered this from Jeep (£30 for a bloody seal!) and got my brother in-law to let me borrow his car ramp at work.  Everything went really well in changing it until it was all back together and it looked different to how it had before we started.  I took a load of video as I was going to post a how-to on Birty's to help anyone else who had the same issue, so I have a record of before and after. 

The before shot shows a large black outter seal/ring and the after shot doesnt have this.  So looks like the seal I ordered didnt come with the outer one too.  I tried to explain all this to my nearest dealer and they said I needed an O ring.  I wasnt sure but decided they're the experts so went with it.  Anyway, the part arrives in the post for me (otherwise its a 100mile round trip to pick it up) and its not what I was expecting.  I've put two photos below and wondered if anyone can confirm for me if the bit I'm missing is the Drive Pinoin Slinger, or if its called something else?!





The black bit covered in oil in the first picture is the bit Im missing.  On a side note, the O ring they've sent me doesnt appear on any exploded parts diagrams I have, although it is mentioned...anyone have any ideas where it goes?!

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

[Bubba]

it rite or rather its wrong from your old one but its still the same thing its still a pinion seal but its from a diff suplyer or the part was changed for no good reason other than some dick thought it was a good idea

[tim_aka_tim]

Here's the parts list if anyone would like to hazard a guess....

[attachment=1]

[Mike Pavelin]

Looks ok to me.

[Dave69]

No.4

just need the end seal and the yoke re-fitting

[Bubba]

4 is iol slinger 5 is the seal but there is no o ring

[gregwho]

Cheers everyone for the quick replies!

No.4

just need the end seal and the yoke re-fitting

So, i'll order the slinger and hope they get the right bit this time! 

As they sent me the O ring (which by the way the dirty scoundrels charged me £18 for!!!!), do you think its worth putting it on?  From the parts diagram posted by tim_aka_tim, it talks about the O ring fitting on the hub of the axel yoke...I dont remember seeing it when we were under the car, but if its there should I change it, or get some cash back?

[Bubba]

the oil slinger if there was one i have actualy found them with out will not need replacement as you hopefully put it back in its place i am not sure what you  are trying to tell us is wrong but to me pic one shows your old oil seal and pic two shows you new one wich often does not look the same but does the same job if i have missed somthing  i do apologise

[Mike Pavelin]

If all you've done is taken the old seal out and put the new one in, job done. Hope you marked the position of the pinion nut so you can restore the  bearing preload.

[Asylum]

No point having an oil slinger on the outside of an oil seal? The manufactures diagrams tim put up looks wrong to me and I think is confusing matters. Should be oil slinger then seal I think, It is possible to put the oil seal on backwards though, I know this as recently done the pinion bearings on my TJ front axle and almost put it in backwards before realising. I could be wrong and often am but would check to be sure.

[Mike Pavelin]

The slinger is just a big round plate like a washer, goes inside, if there was one, it'll still be there. The seal in the picture is fitted correctly.

[tag]

Looks to me as if the oil seal is missing in the second pic?   .........in the first pic you can see the rubber seal round the edges of the hole  , looks like the metal tap in type  that would go into the recess on the second pic..........

[gregwho]

Thanks everyone for your input, from the replies I have a few more questions, to understand some points raised...

Firstly Mike, one (or two!) for you....

If all you've done is taken the old seal out and put the new one in, job done. Hope you marked the position of the pinion nut so you can restore the  bearing preload.

With the preload (which i'm guessing is how tight the pinoin nut is done up) why is it important to set it back to the same as before?  I know we marked the nut and the pinoin with tipex, but have to admit I didnt watch when the nut was done backup so not sure if it was tightened to same position.  If it wasnt would the car potentially make a "whine" noise when decelerating between about 50 and 40?!  Would there be any major problems caused?  Any way to check the preload?

No point having an oil slinger on the outside of an oil seal? The manufactures diagrams tim put up looks wrong to me and I think is confusing matters. Should be oil slinger then seal I think, It is possible to put the oil seal on backwards though, I know this as recently done the pinion bearings on my TJ front axle and almost put it in backwards before realising. I could be wrong and often am but would check to be sure.

A totally green question here for you Asylum...what is the slinger?!  I have no idea what it is or what it does, just that its in the picture Tim posted!

Looks to me as if the oil seal is missing in the second pic?   .........in the first pic you can see the rubber seal round the edges of the hole  , looks like the metal tap in type  that would go into the recess on the second pic..........

Tag, totally agree with you - i think the "outside" seal is there just to keep a load of the road crap away from the more important "inner" seal, but I have no idea what this bit is called!  The old one was definatetly seated in the recess...any ideas what this bit is called?  But like Bubba said I guess they could have changed the design and totally done away with the outside bit....


Sorry for all the questions guys, Ive never had a go at diffs/axels before so learning as I go through this 

[Bubba]

as can happen with forums you can get several answers that whilst helpfull muddy the water some

i assure you the new the  seal you have fitted although it looks different is correct

the reason the nut has to be very carefully re tightened is if you go over evan a small amount can over tighten the bearing preload and the bearings will overheat and start to breack up in time  i almost certain your wj has a crush sleeve not shims the crush is easy to overtighten if it is you need a new crush sleeve and quite possibly pinion bearings

mr pavlin will confirm as he is far more expert on the newer models

[Mike Pavelin]

The preload (pre determined pressure applied to the pinion bearings) is originaly set during assembly by gradually tighting the pinion nut, and periodically measuring the torque required to rotate the pinion (Measured in inch - pounds) until a specified turning torque is reached. This is only done with a new crush spacer. If the pinion nut is to be removed after this, there are two methods of retaining the preload. The manufacturers'preferred method is to measure the pinion turning torque before dismantling, then measure again during reassembly until the same figure is achieved. The more usual method is to mark the nut and pinion shaft and make sure the marks are aligned again when reassembled. Over tightening will shorten bearing life, under tightening will create noise and accelerate gear wear. The slinger is just a metal disc which simply chucks most of the oil travelling through the pinion bearings back into the diff casing before it gets as far as the oil seal. The seal you have looks OK. You could always post up the part number and we'll check.

[tag]

Do you have a local bearing distributor?    i have one local to me here in leeds  he can match a new seal/bearing if you have the old one, i think the seal you have missing  is to stop road crap entering the diff,  the transfer box output shaft has a metal disc guard to protect the seal/bearing for the same reason........

[Bubba]

tag dood i know you only helpin but the dealers and all the other suppliers have  been selling loads of these [wrong faulty seals] without problem or come back so it may be very helpfull if you contact them direct and point out there error

[Mike Pavelin]

THERE'S NOTHING MISSING      There, I said it.

[tag]

Bub  i'm outa here,.     and it's Dude........

[gregwho]

THERE'S NOTHING MISSING      There, I said it.

Thanks Mike, that says it all for me    Nothing missing, aka theres nothing else I need to do, sweet!  The only thing i'm concerned about is the pinoin nut preload (by the way thanks very much for the description of it, I'm starting to understand the workings of diffs a bit better now).  I'm going to get it back down to a garage and up on a ramp to see if a) the tipex is still there and b) if it is, does it line up.  If it doesn't.....well I have no idea where to go from there....maybe to the pub.....

To everyone, thanks a million for all your input and advice...i'll pull together the various bits of video i took while the seal was changed and post it up as a how to for others in the future with similar questions.