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[willo]

So, as many of you know, I have been playing around with some winch challenges in my 98 TJ, and this year I have stepped up the level at which I am competing, so in order to compete at a higher level, I must also make my Jeep stronger and more reliable.

In a bid to keep my many threads of advice on this, axle that, I thought it best to start a thread similar to Wildwood's 1 ton continues, as lets face it, I may almost may as well be starting again. I had thought I had a reasonably well sorted jeep, but having actually done some events, I now realise the level I need to be at.

My main focus this year is the King of the Valley's in July. I am steadily working through the safety list and technical regs....

So......as we speak, My new Axle/s are winging their way back to the wight isle, I sincerely hope that I have made the correct decision here, and that they are ok. I have had to take a step backwards in order to move upwards in strength on the front, so am now without my RCV front shafts and ARB, BUT.......I have got a Ford F150 HP Dana 44 front axle, with discs and Hi Steer on its way. As part of the deal, I also have an FSJ Dana 44 rear axle with lockrite, both these axles are 4.11 ratio. And I have a set of 4 6 x5.5 PCD wheels to fit the axles.

As I have mentioned on another thread, I have an event 25/26 <March and there's Birty's Breakout the following weekend that I'd like to try to get to, so I have a bit of a quandary as to the best way to progress at the moment....

Your thoughts are appreciated

This is my Jeep in October 2011.

[attachment=1]

[MOCAJ]

having been to a challenge event this past weekend i can see what your up against

some guys are chucking lots of £££££'s into it for sure 

but i got to say, good winches front and back and maybe even centre will get you most places 

[willo]

Axles turn up tomorrow, its gonna be interesting to see how much wider a) a F150 D44 front axle is than a D30 front and b) how much wider is a FSJ D44 rear, compared to a TJ D44 rear.

Presuming that the new axles are ok, and I haven't been taken for a mug, (I'm sure this isn't the case), then the whole conundrum begins. Perhaps I should mention where I want to be with my axles and drive train when I have finished:

Rear: 4 link double triangulated long arm with 5" stretch, ARB or Lockrite perhaps, 4.88 cromo shafts, not too fussed which axle, I reckon my TJ D44 as built is stronger, but may be too narrow, wrong wheel pattern etc

Front: + 2" front stretch, Clayton copy 2/4 link y arm long arm, ARB 4.88 RCV shafts all with Johnny joint/Clevite bushing

Transfer box Dana300


This is what I have a choice of:



The front axle I will be fitting is F150 HP D44 4.11, stock shafts,brackets to suit clayton type rotated y 2/4 link front, and Wheel stud 6 x 5.5

For the rear I have a choice of:

My current TJ D44 with ropey ARB, 4.56, Alloy USA shafts and SSBC brakes - brackets to suit RE short arm wheel stud 5x4.5 or 5x5.5

FSJ D44 with 4.11, lockrite, stock shafts, drums and brackets to suit home fab Long arm/ 3 link rear   oh and wheel stud 6x5.5

At Home I have spare:

D44 ARB

D44 4.56 standard rotation Ring, can't seem to find the pinion

wheels, I have 1 set of 5 x 5.5 ( not mine but I can borrow for a while)
1 set of 6x5.5
2 sets of 5x4.5

And seeing as I got till 24 March to get this all sorted, so I can compete, and the D300 is going in at the same time, and I got (until some stuff sells) about £800 to chuck at it, what would you do?

Oh, the only other thing I have is a bare D30 standard case, with no carrier, but will have brakes and steering gear.

If I needed to build that up, just so as to compete, I have shafts, D30 ARB,  not sure about R&P(but then if I'm gonna buy a R&P, I may just as well get a 4.56 Reverse cut and stick it in the HPD44 ), wheel bearings etc so that's a possibility, I think I'd probably have to use the arb as just a carrier, as with standard shafts and simex and my right foot, its all liable to go a bit pete tong. And I'd have to get spendy on something I'm gonna ditch.........grrr

what do peoples think?

[scrw]

use the f150 & fsj 44's with the 4.11 ratio to start with, don't fanny around with the axles until you have the truck on its wheels given your short timescale

[willo]

use the f150 & fsj 44's with the 4.11 ratio to start with, don't fanny around with the axles until you have the truck on its wheels given your short timescale

yeah, that was my sort of thinking, not sure how 35's will be with 4.11 offroad, but heh! The only other think, is that the Big axles are bracketed for clayton copy long arms, and they came off an xj.
So I'll have to get the long arms sorted, I have been in contact with a uk supplier for JJ's and jamb nuts and threaded inserts......

So then my thoughts are, do I fit an ARB to the f150, or not bother as it is using standard (afaik) shafts, also how will the rear cope on standard shafts, a lockrite and simex?

See there goes my head again, why don't I leave my strong TJ rear on, with short arm still attached, then fit just the F150 front, long arm it and stick a locker in it, and see if I can modify the wheel pattern to suit 5x4.5 or 5x 5.5 - doh, but then i'd have to re-gear my rear with the 4.11 or buy a new reverse cut 4.56 for the front.........oh ffs

[Pdro]

Fantastic mate, I'm just starting out on upgrading my 98 tj as well. I will follow your build with great interest and probaby copy the mods that work for you! I intend to start the winch challenges Next year or later this year if funds allow.

Plenty of photos and info please sir!

[Dave69]

with upgrading your axles etc and wheels to 35's where do you see your weak point will be? get heavy on the right foot what will break first?

bullet proof axles and prop leads to transmission failure.

get the axles in std format first and rolling to see how it performs then increase in strength as planned

[isle of man]

This is as Gasser said - you only move the fuse to another location!!

[willo]

Just found 3G again as am at work. I am tempted at the moment to run with my stronger tj rear ( as IOM pointed out somewhere) and regear it with the 4.11 out of the fsj rear, at least then i wil have a axle that can be locked and will hold up to the simex. Then the question is which rim to put the spare on i reckon a front rim, as i have bust a bead on the front before but never the back. At this stage i'm gonna leave my tyres pumped up as i dont want EVEN more grip.

Or do i compete with the 35" MT's?

IOM what do you see as your weak link on the mafia?

[isle of man]

For the Mafia it's the clutch - I have little option after driveing the useless centre force (either on or off) set up - in my opinion fooooking TAT for off road use.

[willo]

For the Mafia it's the clutch - I have little option after driveing the useless centre force (either on or off) set up - in my opinion fooooking TAT for off road use.

Clutch feck,  thats not an in the field fix. Wonder if anyone makes any sacrificial bits to go between the propshaft and the pinion.....

Dave69, i have previously been running cromo all round and 35's at the moment i have taken a step backwards in shaft strength and am worried how the stabdard shafts on the front are gonna cope with simex.

I wonder if anyone knows the strength difference between standard D30 front shafts and F150 d44 shafts, as i know all too well that locked standard D30 shafts and simex with a good measure if my right foot equals snappy half shafts/ yokes/ uj's. And at the moment i haven't got any spare F150 D44 shafts..... Wonder what else uses them, or where i can get some...

[donk498]

Just an idea but would it pay you in the long run to miss the event in march and get the build done? Do it once do it right etc........ not what i'd do i admit but just an idea.

[willo]

Yes, there is that, hmmmmmmnn. It'd be a shame to loose the entry fee, not sure i'd get my money back. Plus its good practise as i'll be starting with another new wb this year.

[normalbloke]

I suspect you're going to need 6 months to a year to see this through.

Surely the fuse point should be the tyres?

[Warthog]

4 weeks   Now thats a deadline.

Are you sure you want to pin a deadline on a build like this?

I cant see it happening, that quick? Just too many spanners to throw in the works methinks

I would be thinking, get the Truck ready for the March events, with as little fuss possible. Then strip down and rebuild....

[willo]

4 weeks   Now thats a deadline.

Are you sure you want to pin a deadline on a build like this?

I cant see it happening, that quick? Just too many spanners to throw in the works methinks

I would be thinking, get the Truck ready for the March events, with as little fuss possible. Then strip down and rebuild....

I think you have the wrong end of the stick. I have an event in 4 weeks that i really want to go to as all booked and paid, and i need to get the jeep back to a reasonable spec, so perhaps just front axle fitted, at the mo and no locker to tempt fate.

With the state of my wallet and the list of mods i want to do, i can quite easily see myself into next year,  i am not setting a deadline, i just need to be entered into stuff itherwise my attention will drift off to other stuff


Having re read what i copy and pasted, i realise i worded it wrong. Got to get it all sirted yes, but not by the 24th march. I just need to be up and running with something that will work. Apologies

[Warthog]

I think you have the wrong end of the stick. I have an event in 4 weeks that i really want to go to as all booked and paid, and i need to get the jeep back to a reasonable spec, so perhaps just front axle fitted, at the mo and no locker to tempt fate.

With the state of my wallet and the list of mods i want to do, i can quite easily see myself into next year,  i am not setting a deadline, i just need to be entered into stuff itherwise my attention will drift off to other stuff

Ahh! I see.....

So the F150/FSJ axle are a straight swap? Sounds like thats the best option as previously mentioned for your time scale.

When are ya gonna Skip throwing Money at the TJ and Build a Buggy, you know it'll make sense What say you Mr Henry

[willo]

No, i still have my TJ Dana44 4.56 alloy usa arb and ssbc rear....

Hmm buggy:-) thats a nice idea, but not the one for me. At least with the TJ i can still take Mrs Willo out for Sunday lunch...

[Warthog]

I think with what your planning, keeping the TJ road legal is gonna be tough.

Bet the TJ becomes a fulltime trailer queen in the end

Vicious circle, modding a stocker. Can only get so far until the Buggy thing takes hold.

Birtys crazy hippy dude Mr Wildwoods build demostrates this well

[wildwood]

Thank you Mr Warthog.    Was just going to say the same.............. I went trailer queen so I could rag it both days of (for example) Cheapfest not tread lightly the first day then a bit harder then bimble on the Sunday cos I know its home time pack up soon and the breakdown services are not as understanding as they were?

Also after all that wedge on rubber you don't want to leave it on the A1/A14 M1 or wherever.

I would patch up your TJ for this year or next event.................

Then ................and I know this is a biggy..............get another TJ YJ don't matter which and build from the ground up.............

This is what I am doing .........rather than feck with the 1 ton and have no wheels for the next many months.............

I am Building from the TJ chassis I have aquired................... although I am still wondering whether full body or tube and slim like IOM's buggy......keeping it as narrow as the chassis?

There you go that gives you food for thought................

[JamesH]

One comment from above that you might not need to address - you say the front D44 is bracketed for clayton style Y-link long arms and was on an XJ. The clayton Y-link fits to stock brackets on the axle and the XJ and TJ have the same brackets so it should just bolt in.

I'd get the 2 new axles under the Jeep, as they are, with a set of 35s on the wheels and drive it a bit, on and off road and just check for any minor problems. Hopefully this will be a quick stage and then let you know or certain what gearing to go for, lockers, shafts etc. (I think you can go 5.xx with D44s and if mostly for offroad I'd go DEEP) JeepSpeed XJs do 5.13/5.29/5.38 gears for 33" tyres!

[willo]

Axles and roof have arrived

 [attachment=1]

TJ is coming of age and ready to accept its new 'man axles', which are about 10" wider....

[attachment=2]

[Bulldog67]

that's a big fuck off garage ya got dood 

[willo]

that's a big fuck off garage ya got dood 

You can see about a third of it in that pic! Lol

[Bulldog67]

so if its rainin in June we can head back to yours for a warehouse rave instead of the bbq