Topic: Sparkys (or those inclined to electrickery) - what do I need to run this? (Read 7314 times)

Bulldog67 · « **on:** January 12, 2013, 06:58:09 PM »

Had a rush of blood to the head this afternoon (hangovers are bad for ebay) and bought the below for the J10 as I like the one I got for the Chief so much, but as it was a last second 'oooh that looks fun' purchase I didnt read the blurb and its not 12v - so what extra do I need to have it runnin in the truck?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110997396895

Cheers

bigjeepzj · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2013, 07:13:39 PM »

http://www.maplin.co.uk/b-grade-150w-12v-inverter-with-usb-charge-socket-683065
one of them for a start
and a mains light switch or something like

any idea what wattage it is

Dave The Sparky · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2013, 07:17:27 PM »

Remember that the inverter kicks out 240V so make sure its wired in by someone who knows what they are doing otherwise your entire car may become live or you may kill someone

Bulldog67 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2013, 07:19:33 PM »

Quote from: bigjeepzj on January 12, 2013, 07:13:39 PM

any idea what wattage it is

no idea on wattage, i was trawlin ebay while watchin a film (Underworld Awakening - Kate Beckinsale so needs to let me breed with her) and saw it with a minute to go and whacked in a bid (which was only 10p higher than final price) so know nowt about it

will ask the seller

and Cheers Sparky - that wont be me then

bigjeepzj · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2013, 07:28:36 PM »

Quote from: Dave The Sparky on January 12, 2013, 07:17:27 PM

Remember that the inverter kicks out 240V so make sure its wired in by someone who knows what they are doing otherwise your entire car may become live or you may kill someone

good point
would be worth getting it PAT (Portable appliance testing) tested to make sure the insulation is safe .
Find out when your office gets done a bung the tester block a £5

Lukemagnum · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2013, 11:14:44 PM »

The nameplate on your new little toy shows 0.4A which means its about 100watts. However, I would go for a min of a 200W inverter (look on eBay) I use a 150W to drive a 120W laptop and it constantly trips out.

Shut your eyes - here's a technical bit.

A 150W inverter is for continuous resistive (lighting) loads, it will struggle with the 100W of this siren as it's an inductive (motor) load, especially when you switch it on.

Safe to open your eyes!

Make sure that you get or make a new terminal box cover (although the power originates from your car battery it's now at mains voltage), a sheet of ally cut to size and screwed on would do the job. Add gaskets and waterproof glands if it's mounted outside - earmuffs if inside.

A PAT test is a waste of time, that basically tests the plug and lead (both of which are missing) and not the appliance.

Get a good electrician to fit it, or at least check your handy work, pay attention to how it's earthed, 12V DC and mains don't mix, at best it could fry up your 12V electrics.

Finally, what day are you expecting WW3 to start?

Bulldog67 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2013, 10:50:08 AM »

less ww3 but more for clearing a path thru elderly ramblers

cheers for the advice, I think I know just the man for the fitting job

re the inverter: does it matter if its too big? I havent looked at prices etc yet but can i assume 500w would be better than 200w?

bigjeepzj · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2013, 11:00:39 AM »

500w will be fine
Just get it checked and you can pat test stuff with out plug.
Your sparky mate should be able do the testing it needs

Lukemagnum · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2013, 12:07:38 PM »

Within reason, the bigger the better, you can use it for running other items like TVs etc, although you have to realise that it will draw a high current that may exceed your fuse rating for a cigi lighter. A 500W unit will draw up to 60 amps on full load. You're still better off running a 500W at 50% than a 250W at 100%.

With the PAT testing, part of the service contracts I've had, have required me to provide PAT testing of office equipment. Most of the items had electronic circuits which would give false readings or be damaged by the tester, so all that was checked was the plug and lead. IMHO a PAT test tells you as much about the condition of something as an MOT certificate.

This siren is a class 1 appliance so a simple insulation resistance test on the windings with a Megga is all that can be done on it.

Another thing to note is, if it hasn't got a plug, then it's probably not a portable appliance!

Plank · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2013, 12:11:36 PM »

it's not the running load that is the problem it's the start up. Your probably looking at an in rush of at least 2.5 full load (going of memory from working with inverters 20 years ago). Good installation is also the key, safety, safety safety

Plank · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2013, 12:17:58 PM »

Quote from: Lukemagnum on January 13, 2013, 12:07:38 PM

Within reason, the bigger the better, you can use it for running other items like TVs etc, although you have to realise that it will draw a high current that may exceed your fuse rating for a cigi lighter. A 500W unit will draw up to 60 amps on full load. You're still better off running a 500W at 50% than a 250W at 100%.

With the PAT testing, part of the service contracts I've had, have required me to provide PAT testing of office equipment. Most of the items had electronic circuits which would give false readings or be damaged by the tester, so all that was checked was the plug and lead. IMHO a PAT test tells you as much about the condition of something as an MOT certificate.

This siren is a class 1 appliance so a simple insulation resistance test on the windings with a Megga is all that can be done on it.

Another thing to note is, if it hasn't got a plug, then it's probably not a portable appliance!

60 amps FLC on a 500w inverters, obviously not sober yet.

Bulldog67 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2013, 12:21:23 PM »

so really I dont wanna go anywhere near this

auto electrician or domestic?

i will have a shop around for a 500w inverter and post it up before i buy

Plank · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2013, 12:48:28 PM »

Bulldog, Unfortunately this time you have bought a pup.

Bulldog67 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2013, 12:52:21 PM »

there is no obstacle I cannot overcome in the pursuit of stupidity

Any thoughts on the below?

http://www.zazdas.com/department/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcountry=218&idproduct=2686832&idcategory=0

http://uk.ebid.net/for-sale/streetwize-500-watt-1000-watt-peak-inverter-63285010.htm?from=googleshop_uk

I would rather spend the cash but the train horn on CJ7 was same sorta cash all in

I suppose worse comes to worse I can save it for my zombie apocalypse HGV horse box truck transportin plan

Plank · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2013, 01:21:10 PM »

Bulldog, Really, save it for the zombie apocalypse. Death to vehicle will probably occur if not. This is the voice of reason with no bull shit.

Dave The Sparky · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2013, 01:24:39 PM »

Motors take approx 6 x there rated current for starting and you can run 230V in your vehicle. but it does need putting in by someone who knows what they are doing, so for your kids sake i would buy a 12V one if you can and leave this one to annoy your neighbour with when hes having a BBQ.

bigjeepzj · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2013, 01:41:56 PM »

Quote from: Dave The Sparky on January 13, 2013, 01:24:39 PM

Motors take approx 6 x there rated current for starting and you can run 230V in your vehicle. but it does need putting in by someone who knows what they are doing, so for your kids sake i would buy a 12V one if you can and leave this one to annoy your neighbour with when hes having a BBQ.

get it wired in as a lunch bell to call in your flock

Bulldog67 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 13, 2013, 03:19:36 PM »

so what is the purpose of an inverter?

Im not doubting ya wisdom, thats why I asked, but usually when ya sling cash at summink there is an answer

Dave The Sparky · « **Reply #18 on:** January 13, 2013, 03:58:06 PM »

The inverter magically transforms 12V D.C from your Jeeps battery to 230V A.C (like you use in Bulldog Towers).
And your little siren there needs 230V A.C to run it.

Bulldog67 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 13, 2013, 04:10:15 PM »

that's what I thort, hence my confusion

so what is the issue then? seein as it wont be used v often?

bigjeepzj · « **Reply #20 on:** January 13, 2013, 04:55:59 PM »

the main problem is the siren is in a metal case and old.
The main point is that it needs testing to make sure its safe.
WE d'not want you killed. and get some one who wires motor homes who will know the reg's for mains and auto mix.

Bulldog67 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 13, 2013, 04:57:22 PM »

I see, that makes sense

Lukemagnum · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2013, 10:03:15 AM »

60 amps FLC on a 500w inverters, obviously not sober yet.

Was completely sober.

You must be thinking of the output current @ 230V which will be about 2A. The high current draw is on the 12V input side.

500W output at 75% efficiency (that's being generous for Chinese electronics) = 670W input.

670W / 12V = 56A.

For the 1000W intermittent you can double that.

Bulldog67 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2013, 06:20:30 PM »

Dave The Sparky · « **Reply #24 on:** January 14, 2013, 07:48:11 PM »

Author Topic: Sparkys (or those inclined to electrickery) - what do I need to run this? (Read 7314 times)

Lukemagnum

Lukemagnum

Plank

Plank

Plank

Plank

Lukemagnum