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[TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK]

Hello, fellow Liberty CRD owners!

I am new to this forum, and was only made aware that it existed from an email newsletter from RockAuto, an on-line automotive parts company.  I have been wanting to hook up with Jeep Liberty/Cherokee CRD owners in the U.K. for some time, as I am wondering if CRD owners have the same problems that we do in North America with our rides.  Do Liberty/Cherokee CRDs, (and by extension, any vehicle that is powered by the V.M. Motori R428 engine), suffer from the same cold-running problems in the U.K. and Europe as they do in North America?  If they do, then I may have a solution for you.

I manufacture a replacement engine thermostat assembly for the V.M. Motori R428 engine that powers the Jeep Liberty CRD.  I believe, although I am not 100% certain, that I am the only aftermarket manufacturer of this thermostat assembly in the world.

Unlike the terrible O.E. thermostat assembly, my product will actually get your CRD engine up to proper operating temperature. This means that you will get more power, better reliability, and better fuel mileage from your CRD if my assembly is installed.

Furthermore, you will never have to change out the housing again when my assembly is installed. The O.E. assembly must be replaced in it's entirety, because you can not get to the thermostat valve inside. My assembly has a removable cap that allows the owner to change out the thermostat valve easily and inexpensively.

My design uses Chrysler Hemi V-8 thermostat valves, which are easily obtained anywhere, come in 3 different temperatures, all of which are warmer than the O.E. unit. They are inexpensive at about $20.00 each, (you can often find them for less), and will be manufactured for years to come. Finally, the Hemi thermostat valves are considerably larger than the valve in the O.E. assembly, allowing for greater flow of coolant when the engine is working hard in hot weather.

My thermostat assembly, the Hot Diesel Solutions Model 001, is vastly superior to the original equipment part from Chrysler. If you want your CRD to run right and provide really good heat in the winter time, this is a must have part.

[TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK]

Hello again:

It appears that I may have misunderstood that this forum actually has Liberty/Cherokee CRD owners as members, as I thought I would have received at least one reply by now.

My product is an aftermarket thermostat assembly that permanently replaces the throwaway O.E. thermostat assembly in all V.M. Motori R428 engines.  Can someone point me in the right direction as to which forum I should be on so I can let people who have a vehicle with this engine know about my product?

[bgbazz]

You might want to try AJOR....Australian Jeep Off Road forum...they have a dedicated KJ section. 

[JamesH]

There are a few KJ owners or members with KJs as daily drive cars. I'm not sure I've heard of the thermostat housing as being a problem before but if it is and if your new version is compatible with the 2.8VM in other Jeeps then you could get a lot of interest from the JK owners on Jeep Owners Club (UK) and Jeep-Club.

If it is a new and shiny part then pictures would be good too.

[TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK]

Thank you fellows; I will be sure to follow up with the forums you have mentioned.

I will try to post some photos now, but I am fairly computer-stupid...   

I have attached a series of photographs to illustrate the design of the Model 001, and to compare it with the original equipment unit.  the photos are described as follows...

1) ... IMG_1453; COMPLETELY DISASSEMBLED THERMOSTAT ASSEMBLY.
2) ... IMG_1467; REAR/SIDE VIEW OF ASSEMBLED THERMOSTAT ASSEMBLY.
3) ... IMG_1468; FRONT/SIDE VIEW OF ASSEMBLED THERMOSTAT ASSEMBLY.
4) ... IMG_1479; PHOTO OF HARDWARE, TOOL AND GASKET INCLUDED WITH THE SALE OF EACH THERMOSTAT ASSEMBLY.
5) ... IMG_1508; PHOTO OF ONE SIDE VIEW OF ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT ENGINE THERMOSTAT ASSEMBLY.
6) ... IMG_1513; PHOTO OF THE OTHER SIDE OF THE O.E. THERMOSTAT ASSEMBLY.

[Mike Pavelin]

Might be helpful to give the price.

[frosty 1]

will this fit on a JK ?

[ivanidea]

I found the best site for the KJ was the LOST Jeeps (Liberty Owners Support)

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/index.php

[TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK]

I found the best site for the KJ was the LOST Jeeps (Liberty Owners Support)

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/index.php

You are correct that LOSTJEEPS.com is hands down the best forum for KJ Libertys/Cherokees, and the best one I have found so far for the Liberty/Cherokee CRD. 

The problem is that there were very few diesels sold in North America, (I am told the number is somewhere between 15,000 and 20,000 units over 2 years).  I am looking for other markets that have vehicles that use the V.M. Motori R428 engine; the Liberty/Cherokee of course, but other vehicles as well.  I have also been told the R428 engine is or was a popular choice for taxicabs in the U.K., but I do not have a clue on how to contact the service department of a large taxi cab company in your neck of the woods.

Apparently, the O.E. thermostat assembly that was made for the R428 engine has the same problem everywhere, and not just in North America.  I am on this forum and would like to join others just to confirm this as fact and offer my replacement thermostat assembly as a viable alternative. 

The O.E. thermostat assembly is your typical proprietary part; expensive to replace because you almost always have to go to a dealer to get one.  This part in North America is a worst-case scenario; not only are they expensive to purchase and they take more time to replace, but they also fail every 30,000 to 50,000 miles, and they are not even the right opening temperature for anything outside of Death Valley.  They make the engine run way too cool, and therefore the terrible pollution control system on them runs even worse because the engine can't burn the pollutants off properly.

[TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK]

will this fit on a JK ?

It will definitely fit on a JK if it has a V.M. Motori R428 turbo-diesel engine in it.   

[TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK]

Might be helpful to give the price.

Here is the part that shocks a few people... I sell them to U.S. customers for $465.00 USD... this equates to about 314.22 GBP.   

Here is the problem... with so few CRDs in North America, I had to choose CNC machining as my method of manufacturing.  These things cost me about $350.00 each to manufacture the parts alone, and that is not including assembly time. 

If I could get a contract for, say, 20,000 units I could justify the expense of creating a mold for die casting.  I have been quoted between 100,000.00 and 150,000.00 CDN for molds of a thermostat housing with a removable cap.

Sand casting is also not an option as there is too much of a chance of porosity in thin-wall castings.  Even if you could guarantee an air-tight housing, there would be so much machining required that you might as well carve your housings from a solid block of 6061 aluminum to begin with.

The upside to CNC machining is the absolute top-notch quality of the product you produce.  Check out the postings on my thread on LOSTJEEPS.com...

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75791&start=220

This link starts you on page 12, as this is the page customers start to post their impressions of my product.  I have had excellent feedback from people who have received my product and installed them in their rides.  Feel free to read over the entire thread, if you are inclined to do so.

With CNC machining, there is also the added benefit of being able to easily change up the design to accommodate changing parameters or to add options.  For example, I am changing the design for the next production run to add two extra threaded ports for aftermarket temperature sending units so that customers can conveniently add aftermarket temperature gauges or make a conversion to an electric cooling system fan.

[Jonny Jeep]

According to Wikipedia the VM engine used in TX4 taxis is the R425 DOHC. Will the housing fit that engine?

If so just google TX4 forum and there will be a few that pop up in the results.

[JamesH]

If you market it for JK owners here you will find more people who mod their vehicles. Only very few KJs get modified.

[TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK]

According to Wikipedia the VM engine used in TX4 taxis is the R425 DOHC. Will the housing fit that engine?

If so just google TX4 forum and there will be a few that pop up in the results.

I really do not know for certain if the thermostat assemblies are the same between the R428 and the R425... a person would come to that conclusion because the R428 engine is apparently an enlarged version of the R425.  I will definitely find out!

[TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK]

If you market it for JK owners here you will find more people who mod their vehicles. Only very few KJs get modified.

As I had previously mentioned, if the JK owners have the V.M. Motori R428 engine in their vehicles in your market, I can definitely help them.   

The Model 001 engine thermostat assembly is really more of an upgrade part for the R428, (and maybe the R425), than it is an upgrade part for the Jeep Liberty/Cherokee.

[TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK]

Hello again,  Fellow Jeep Enthusiasts!

Thank you for your help in directing me to other Jeep and Taxi Driver forums.  I have been accepted as a member on all of the Jeep forums, and am waiting for approval on the Taxi Driver Forums.

One member from Jeep Owner's Club has already confirmed that the V.M. Motori R425 and R428 engines share the same thermostat; this is great news for me as I can indeed sell my thermostat to R425 owners as well as R428 owners.  He also confirmed that the O.E. thermostat assembly is of poor quality, and that they probably are too cool an opening temperature for optimal performance of these engines.

I am now trying to get contact information on which department of the U.K. government processes paperwork for the importation of automobile parts... can anyone help me out here?  Perhaps someone can post a link to the proper department?

[Mike Pavelin]

Government department? Don't know what you mean. We import parts from all over the world without interference from government departments.

[JamesH]

Yes, if someone is interested in buying 1 or 100 to distribute they just send you money, you ship, government collects tax on the way in automatically (via the shipping company)

[TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK]

Government department? Don't know what you mean. We import parts from all over the world without interference from government departments.

Yes, if someone is interested in buying 1 or 100 to distribute they just send you money, you ship, government collects tax on the way in automatically (via the shipping company)

I apologize for the confusion, Gentlemen:

In North America we have a Free Trade Agreement in place.  If someone in Canada wants to ship their product to the U.S. and avoid having to pay duties, fees, or taxes; they need to fill out the proper paperwork through the Department of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, (either On-line or by traditional hardcopy), and submit evidence that the product is made in Canada with the majority of the materials sourced in North America, (usually photographs).  This process is also the same for U.S. or Mexican suppliers shipping products to Canada... they must apply for Free Trade status through the Government of Canada.  This can save the end-user a significant amount of money.

I want to be able to ship products to other markets in other parts of the world and avoid having my customers pay duties, taxes, and fees... if this is legal and possible.  I believe the Government of Canada signed a Free Trade Agreement with the European Union, and I am wondering of this agreement applies to the U.K., or if their is a separate agreement with the U.K.  If so, I will apply for Free Trade status.

My product is expensive; of that there is no doubt.  However, this is entirely due to the manufacturing method I had to go with, and not price gouging on my part.  I am not insensitive to complaints about the price I sell my thermostat for, and therefore I am trying to do whatever I can to lower the price the end user has to pay. 

If anyone has a V.M. Motori R425 or R428 engine in their vehicle, my product - properly installed - WILL improve performance, reliability and fuel economy.  And as I have mentioned earlier in this thread, my customers are blown away with the quality of my product... you definitely get your money's worth. 

[Mike Pavelin]

You should contact these guys...  http://vmdieselspecialist.com/  might be worth seeing if they are interested in being UK distributors for you.

[TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK]

You should contact these guys...  http://vmdieselspecialist.com/  might be worth seeing if they are interested in being UK distributors for you.

Thank you, Mike:

I am aware of The VM Diesel Specialist, and I sent them a detailed email back on April 8, 2015.  They have not replied to me as of yet, but this is not surprising as most companies I have dealt with have a poor response record.  On second thought, perhaps they are perfectly happy to sell O.E. parts over vastly superior aftermarket products. 

I will send them another email immediately and see if they are truly interested in what is best for their end-users, or if they merely want to sell lots of parts.

[TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK]

According to Wikipedia the VM engine used in TX4 taxis is the R425 DOHC. Will the housing fit that engine?

If so just google TX4 forum and there will be a few that pop up in the results.

I really do not know for certain if the thermostat assemblies are the same between the R428 and the R425... a person would come to that conclusion because the R428 engine is apparently an enlarged version of the R425.  I will definitely find out!

I recently did some research on my own regarding the issue of the V.M. Motori R425 and R428 turbo-diesel engines and if they share the same engine thermostat.  The short answer is "YES", they do share the same engine thermostat assembly.  Whether or not the valve inside the thermostat assemblies specified for each engine have the same temperature opening is another question altogether.

There is another problem as well.  The design of the thermostat assembly changes depending upon whether or not the engine is mounted longitudinally, (rear-wheel or 4-wheel drive vehicles), or is mounted transverse in the engine bay, (front-wheel drive vehicles).  The design changes are not too difficult to overcome, as the main body of the thermostat housing has not changed.  As far as I can observe from looking at some photos of an R425 or R428 in a Grand Caravan, I simply need to block off one of the medium sized hose barbs, make the other one larger, and change the direction the large hose barb that is attached to the upper radiator hose.

Can anyone tell me if the TX4 taxi cabs in London are front-wheel drive, or rear-wheel drive?

[Jonny Jeep]

Rear wheel drive. Pic below is from here... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242556/End-road-Black-Cab-Theyre-British-icon--factory-makes-London-taxis-run-cash-And-rescue-doomed.html

[TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK]

Rear wheel drive. Pic below is from here... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242556/End-road-Black-Cab-Theyre-British-icon--factory-makes-London-taxis-run-cash-And-rescue-doomed.html

Thanks, Jonny Jeep!  Now if I can only get in touch with the factory that makes the TX4, and the company or companies that service these, I think I can convince them to take a look at my thermostat design.   

Yes, I am aware that the factory may be closing down, but they can still be a valuable lead.   

I know my thermostat can help any vehicle that has a longitudinally mounted V.M. Motori R425 and R428 engine achieve better fuel mileage, produce more power, and have better reliability than running with the O.E. thermostat. 

[Hillbilly]

You could try starting here. http://london-taxis.co.uk/