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[Brynjaminjones]

There's salt on the roads now so I'm refusing to take the Waggy out until it's had it's underside completely sealed. The little network of lanes by our house aren't salted though, so I'm hoping to drive it around locally this winter to keep her healthy.

The trouble is that I'm almost out of LPG and the roads to the nearest station are completely salt covered. Is there a way to fill from a gas bottle?
I'm guessing that if there's anyone that's tried this, it will probably be someone on here!

[wildwood]

Bit of a faff I would think because you will need some adapter to get from propane bottle to your tank.....
As usual I am sure there are a bunch of Heath and Safety numpties who will try to stop you....

Desert racing in the US have this system and use quick disconnects and carry two bottles out back...... Advantage being they can replace both tanks at a pit stop in seconds where as a petrol refill will take longer..... Although that doesn't help you much.....but you get the idea.....

Fork lift trucks have propane to power them so maybe worth looking at their connections if you can get to see one locally.....

[Brynjaminjones]

Hmm thanks for that, helpful as always.

Does sound like a bit of a faff to me. I might try to get it started on petrol instead - last time I tried I couldn't get it to draw anything through. Remembering that I'm a carb idiot, how's best to get it started on petrol when it hasn't been for ages?

Alternatively I'm thinking to stop being so fussy about salt, and just take it out on a nice day when the roads are dry?

[wildwood]

Air filter off and a small container to poor petrol gently down the carb.....keep your head out the way in case it backfires ...
Alternatively a can of Easy Start .....sometimes also available from Wynns as 'Start Ya Bastard'

[Brynjaminjones]

Cheers.

Last time I had it out I tried switching the gas off then straight over to petrol as I drove downhill, in the hope it'd suck the petrol through. Instead it just conked straight out and wouldn't restart on petrol.

The only time I've successfully switched was when I cranked for about 45 seconds (on and off), then gave up and started on LPG, then did the above trick a couple of miles' driving later. It conked out for a few seconds as I coasted then roared back into life. I'm guessing the extended cranking must have already drawn some petrol through?

[bgbazz]

Without trying to state the obvious...sounds as if you may have a dodgy fuel pump...or a partially blocked filter. (or both).

[5536paulj]

Bryn,
When mine's been standing for a couple of months I pour an aerosol sized capful of petrol straight down the carb, better than flattening the battery pumping up the fuel.

Never backfired or blown up on me yet.

My Scimitar needs the same treatment after a layup, old fashioned mechanical fuel pumps!!!

[Jonny Jeep]

Even on dry days I reckon there could be a lot of salt dust in the air. If you want to drive on roads that get salted I think it would be better taking it out after heavy rain has washed the salt off the roads.

[doctorchopper]

you can get a hose, well at least you can in Canada. The only problem is unless you leave the hose connected you won't be able to empty the portable bottle, it will only fill until the pressures equalise,

[Dave69]

junk the mechanical and get an electrical pump, save all that extended cranking.

lpg can be transfered if you have the right connectors, but the volume in the lpg bottle has to be greater thn the amount in the vehicle tank.

or connect direct but then that could be dodgey

[Brynjaminjones]

Thanks for the advice guys.
I'm feeling pretty irritated now - I've finished up my TFI ignition swap today and now the sodding thing won't start at all.


It's getting spark and is cranking fine, but it's not even attempting to fire.


I'm now wondering if it has actually run out of LPG, as after extended cranking there was no smell at all. I also tried petrol, but I'm wondering if the LPG/petrol switch isn't working, as I've not had success with switching across for ages now, and no petrol smell after lots of cranking either. 

[JamesH]

Fuel in the carb like Paul says just to test it will start after the work you’ve done.

[bgbazz]

As Dave69 suggested...consider using an electric fuel pump. When I fitted a larger motor to a previous 4WD I owned, it had 3 fuel tanks and the messing around with trying to plumb the supply to a mechnical pump was a nightmare, so I fitted a separate electric pump for each tank...each controlled by a switch on the dash...easy peasy.

Not this brand, but same principle..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/12v-Electric-Universal-FACET-Red-Top-Style-Fuel-Petrol-Diesel-Pump-Kit-Hrf-027/2200760138?iid=263266636346&_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3Df64ab55204c3448f8d60badf094137ff%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D362021554461&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m2219

[Brynjaminjones]

Thanks again, I will try fuel in the carb.
A daft question (as always): with the LPG mixer on top of the carb, how am I supposed to get fuel in there? With the shape of the thing it doesn't look possible to pour anything in there. Maybe a spray of easy start will do it.

I'm going to try to verify for sure that it is out of LPG.

This would all be much easier if I could get my head around how this LPG system works, but it's such a rat's nest of wiring and tubing that I just can't understand what I'm looking at.

[wildwood]

Sometimes when you are working with someone else's cluster f*** it's better to get back to 'how it was' and strip away all the LPG for the moment and get it running on petrol..
Best carb for the AMC is the Ford motocraft jobbie as I'm sure has been mentioned.....l
That and as said above elex fuel pump.
The facet that Bazz mentioned is an aircraft spec one so that should tell you how 'OK' it is......also used on Honda Africa Twins ........but you don't need to know that

[5536paulj]

Thanks for the advice guys.
I'm feeling pretty irritated now - I've finished up my TFI ignition swap today and now the sodding thing won't start at all.


It's getting spark and is cranking fine, but it's not even attempting to fire.


I'm now wondering if it has actually run out of LPG, as after extended cranking there was no smell at all. I also tried petrol, but I'm wondering if the LPG/petrol switch isn't working, as I've not had success with switching across for ages now, and no petrol smell after lots of cranking either. 

Bryn,

Not to add to your woes but I'm assuming by TFI you mean the big Ford distributor cap with the adaptor? If I remember, and it was a while ago, I had to retime mine when I did that. i.e. find TDC for No 1 cylinder on compression stroke and place No1 lead where the rotor arm points. Can't remember why, maybe the rotor arm points the other way or something like that.

Also check your fuel pump is actually pumping at all, take off the supply pipe at the filter in front of the carb and see if fuel is actually coming through.

I agree with Jez and at this point and removing the lpg stuff and getting it running right on petrol is priority if it was me.

[Brynjaminjones]

I think you're both right about the getting it working right on petrol first - I had previously prioritised LPG whilst I was still driving it, but petrol is much easier when it's not being used regularly.

Paul, you're right about the TFI - it's a big cap and rotor, and I used the Ford coil as well.
I have no idea about how to adjust timing, is it easy enough? I did stupidly take off the old cap without paying attention as to where the wires went, as I've always previously just pulled up a diagram online. I followed a diagram for an AMC V8 online that also seemed to correspond with the #1 marking on the new cap, so I was hoping that would be correct.

[JamesH]

"find TDC for No 1 cylinder on compression stroke and place No1 lead where the rotor arm points. Can't remember why, maybe the rotor arm points the other way or something like that "

finger over spark plug hole or look down it to find when it gets to TDC is my method - not very scientific but worked fine on the 4.0 when I was replacing distributor and messing with stuff.

[5536paulj]

Bryn,

Have a look at the old and new rotor arms and caps before you go any further, as you have enough issues at the moment.

James is right, you do need to put your finger over no 1 plug hole to make sure you're on the compression stroke, distributor turns once for every two engine revolutions so there are 2 tdc's, and it needs to be the right one.
Firing order is embossed on the front of the inlet manifold if you need it!

[Brynjaminjones]

Right, I think I've found something helpful.
I've studied the engine bay pictures from when I bought the Waggy and it looks like the spark leads were routed correctly. IFSJA guys say that the TFI swap can't affect timing enough to cause a no-start.

Another thing I should mention - I only checked for spark from the coil, using the lead from the coil to the distributor. Once I've charged the battery up I'll check for spark at the cylinders. That said, I should be fine as marks on the distributor cap points show that the rotor is definitely making contact.

I'm now leaning further towards a fuel issue. A chap on an LPG page has pointed me in the right direction of how to bypass the petrol shut-off valve that's operated by the LPG kit, and also how to check that there's actually some LPG in there!
If I'm simply out of fuel (optimistic), I sincerely hope this will never be mentioned again...

[JamesH]

I’m sure it will never be mentioned... 

[Brynjaminjones]

Update... it was out of LPG 


To be completely truthful: It looks like the LPG/petrol switch has stopped working, so even when I flicked to petrol the supply was cut off.
I found a tap in the engine bay that overrides the LPG petrol cut-off.

Once that was opened it started first crank! Looks like I don't have any petrol supply problems at all.

For now I'm going to leave it like this; I'm perfectly happy with it running only on LPG, then having to go under the bonnet for 5 seconds if I run out and need to switch.


Also, it idles as smooth as silk now the ignition has had a once-over! The sticky lifter did complain about coming back to life though.

[bgbazz]

Result!   

[Brynjaminjones]

I also finally got the rear window working more-or-less as it should for the first time since I smashed it several weeks back.

I'm working from home today, so all in all I'm very pleased with how productive my lunch break has been!

[5536paulj]